Memphis City Council Committee Meetings: March 3, 2026

2026-03-03 | Memphis, TN City Council

Watch on YouTube

At a glance

mlgw: 2 min
Doug McGowen: 2 min
budget: 2 min
expenditures: 2 min
budget approvals: 2 min
Annotated: 1 of 166 sections

Annotated Sections

Transcript text is available per section when expanded.

4:04

Speakers: Pearl Eva Walker, Doug McGowen

The meeting is called to order and Doug McGowen, President of MLGW, is introduced and given the floor. He details 11 items regarding $67 million of expenditures that have been approved and are seeking approval.

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

I hereby call the Memphis Light Gas and Water Committee to order. Miss Smith, may we have roll call?

—

Yes, ma'am. Councilman Ford, Senior,

—

Councilman Dr. Chair Walker.

Pearl Eva Walker

Thank you. We have one item on the agenda and that is item number one, a discussion of the MLGW fiscal consent agenda. All council districts requested by Memphis Light Gas and Water. President McGallen, welcome. And you have the floor.

Doug McGowen

Thank you, Chairwoman. Um today we're presenting $67 million of expenditures that were recently approved by the board seeking your approval for those expenditures. Today I have 11 items to discuss. The first is a large request for $56 million over five years. This is for electric distribution and transmission construction maintenance. This is with Davis H. Elliot. This is for 17 additional electric overhead line crews uh comprising about 80ome people. These are all local crews that help us. As you know, um we have invested heavily in catching up on our deferred maintenance, catching up on replacing outdated infrastructure and doing our once in a generation um grid modernization effort. So, the Davis H. Elliott crews are helping us to catch up and do those things while our crews do the grid modernization. So, I know the question will be why not hire these folks? This is a temporary measure until we finish grid modernization, which is slated to be completed by 2030 or so. Um, and so the other benefit of having these folks here is when we have storm restoration, essentially we have double the workforce that we would normally have. Otherwise, we'd be calling them in from out of town. So, this continues the contract with them for the next five years. The next is a 15 ton digger Derek truck in the amount of $369,000. This is a normal replacement for us. We have about 17 of these in our inventory
- mlgw
- doug-mcgowen
- budget
- expenditures
- budget-approvals
People: Edmund Ford, Sr., Pearl Eva Walker
6:06

Speakers: Doug McGowen

Show transcript (3 turns)

Doug McGowen

and we're replacing this one here according to our normal uh replacement plan that we have presented to you before in the past. This is consistent with what we had planned for in our budget this year. The next is class 8 cabin chassis trucks. We are buying 12 of them. We have about 200 of these in our inventory. And again, according to our plan for replacement uh through our mechanic shop, uh this is consistent with what we have budgeted for for this year. And this completes our purchase for the year, our planned purchase for these replacement trucks. The others will be disposed of through auction. This is a fast charge Tennessee network in the amount of $294,000. This is our portion of a grant that is being paid 80% through the state of Tennessee to install two DC fast charge stations. One will be in the Midtown area. If you know where Mr. Turley's development is there, the Union Station near UTSC and the other will be out in the area of Collierville. This will provide four chargers each one of these stations. Why those locations? They were determined by the state of Tennessee as a part of the charge across America network. uh to make sure there's chargers within a specific distance. So we had we were very constrained as to where we could put these and we're installing them here and trying to get them installed by uh this summer. So again 80% of the cost of this is borne by the state 20% by MGW. Uh the next is increased is a funding amount of $1.8 million uh to Mason's professional cleaning services. This is an extension uh through 2027. Uh this is the cleaning service. We have many facilities in MLGW. They clean all of them for us. This contract covers all of it, including the new property at Goodlook Farms Parkway that we purchased. Uh though they're only cleaning about onetenth of the to excuse me, about 115th of the total area out there. Excuse me, 15% of the total building, but we're adding some money so they can clean that for us.

Doug McGowen

The next is independent claims adjuster service in the amount of $15,000. These are the claims adjusters who help us recover funding for MLGW in the case of property loss. And so about a million dollars a year is what this $15,000 yields for us.

Doug McGowen

Yes. Next is continuing our medical coverage in the amount of $1 million for the next two years through Sigma Health and Life. It's a two-year extension to our current medical plan. This is the administrative cost for them to administer that for us. Um and the next is consistent with that. It's our dental insurance continuing that for another two years. Um, and the total requested amount of funding there is $5,700,000. MLGW pays only about 20% of the dental cost and our employees pay about the pay the rest and and retirees pay all of the 100% of the premium, but our staff and retirees are happy with the medical plan we have. So we're going to continue that for two years and then we'll be in the process as you know it's a complex process to move forward with an RFP for the next successful bidder for our healthcare. So you'll expect that in about two years time. Next is funding in the amount of $238,000 for out of town travel insurance. This covers about 80 of our MLGW vehicles who travel out of state to pick up parts or to go uh visit other areas. Why do we have out of town insurance? Because in the state of Tennessee, we're covered under tort liability. We're self-insured. Outside of the state of Tennessee, we do not have that same coverage. So, we need to have some policy coverage for when we're traveling out of state in case there's an accident. Next are two salary requests. First is 168,000 for the director of billing and payment services. As a result of our improvements in the delayed held billing, we have restructured our billing and payment services. We've hired we have interested in hiring a very wellqualified uh director of billing and payment services. Um and so that is the subject to your approval of
10:11

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

the salary will be able to extend an offer to a successful candidate who responds to our solicitation for this position. And the last is a request for salary approval for vice president of corporate safety. I will tell you we have not had ever a vice president of corporate safety. We are a very large construction company at MLGW. We have about 2,700 employees. The very vast majority are in the field doing very hazardous work. Um just to put this in context, I have reduced the total number of vice presidents at MLGW by two since I have been there. And so that gives me the opportunity to add corporate safety vice president. So I still will have less vice presidents than I've ever had at MLGW. So I'm reducing that kind of overhead at the VP level so that I could add this vice president of corporate safety. Um I'll give you a pre At the next council meeting, we're also replacing our VP of HR, which we haven't had since um August. So, we're hiring looking to hire that, too. So, again, subject to your approval of this salary, I will extend an offer to a successful candidate who has applied for the position. This is critically important for us. We've had some uh I've done a deep dive into safety since I've been there. Some of the metrics were we're kind of following the trailing metrics. I want to be in front of this and have leading metrics and uh this is going to allow us to invest heavily and have focus on safety because what we do is relatively hazardous at LGW. So subject to your questions that's all I have for the consent general items.

—

Thank you President McGawan. Let the record show that Councilwoman Cooper Sutton has joined us and in the queue we have Dr. Warren, you're recognized.

—

Yeah,

—

thank you, Miss McGown. I I agree that it seems like you're going to definitely need someone to be looking at for safety. This relatively dangerous stuff they're doing is highly dangerous. Okay.
12:13

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

So,

—

at least in my mind, if I was out there, I'd probably be, you know, fried. Uh, but looking at this salary, that's a that's a high salary. Can you talk about uh why that's necessary to uh to get someone who's got the qualifications to be able to pull this off?

—

Yes, sir. Absolutely. So, we do this based on the market part of the utility industry, the public utilities that we serve. That's all the co-ops and the and the public municipal utilities around the area. So, we have Cornferry who is a a HR consulting firm that does uh salary studies for us. They make sure we have comparables out there. Uh then we look at what is kind of the midpoint of the salary. We don't start anybody above the midpoint. We start everybody essentially at the midpoint or below. So there's room for improvement. Um MLGW I just want to provide some context in addition to what they suggest is the the competitive salaries in the utility industry for this kind of position. Um MLGW remains a bargain for our rate payers. I just want to provide you some overall context and and bear with me for just one second. If you were to look at the number of dollars that you pay for your executive leadership as a percentage of your total revenues um at Memphis Light Gas and Water, if you look at the total number of revenues and look at just the vice president's salary, out of every hundred dollars that our rate payers pay, 18 cents goes to pay for our executives.

—

All of our executives. So now that doesn't give you anything to compare to. The next lowest in all of the Tennessee Valley, 40 cents per $100 goes to pay for their executives. The average is about 80 cents per $100 goes to pay for executives at other utilities. Ours is 18 cents for our total revenue stream that goes to pay for our executives. And there are some that go up to a $160 per
14:15

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

$100 that pay for their executives. So, we have a large organization, but we are lean at the top and we represent an incredible value for our customers and that we don't have an overinflated percentage of money that you pay to pay for our leadership executives across three utilities. And the other thing I'll say, Councilman Warren, is that important to note that many of those ratios I just gave you, they have one service that's electric service. They don't have water and gas as well and street lights. So, we do represent and these salaries I understand. And I will also tell you that because I've reduced those vice president positions, this is lower compensation than we've had as well at the vice president level. So we try to be competitive so we can attract the right folks. Uh we represent a bargain. I'm very sensitive to that. Um the last thing I'll say is Councilman, the last time we did a search for an HR chief, I had I did internal and external. I did a nationwide search. I had four excellent candidates who we would have all stood up and said this is the right person and when I offered them I said here's the salary they're like no thank you we you know they needed significantly more than that to be in the market for what they were looking for so

—

is that why it took you so long to get a new

—

we hired an internal person who decided after about six months that she wanted to do something different and so we went back out to the market I made it very clear to the people we're not considering that today that'll be the next meeting but I made it very clear here is the salary band that I can offer. I can't offer anything more than what our consultants say is competitive for the market. I have a constraint on what I can offer our VPs. There's my charter. They can't make more than me, but they all in that other case, they all wanted significantly more than I make and that's just a non-starter through the charter. So, there's a lot of constraints. I understand it is a relatively high salary compared to some other salaries that we have here. But in the market, it is on the very low end of what other Usilities pay for their and it's a competitive market. There's folks
16:16

Show transcript (12 turns)

—

leaving to go to other utilities as well. So for us to retain talent here, we need to be able to be competitive in the market.

—

That sounds like that potentially could be a problem as we move forward, you know? So

—

do we have to give you a raise to be able to hire other people?

—

I'm I'm not going to be the person that advocates for that council. I I know you're not, but I'm just trying to figure out if we can't get people

—

to do these jobs because we're limiting you with what you're making. That may be where we need to go.

—

I will tell you you have dedicated folks here. No one's going to say that they're not fairly compensated here. But I think that as that happens across the industry, especially the attention the energy industry is getting today, it's going to become more and more and more competitive. There will be a compression issue uh with the CEO, whoever that happens to be in the future. The charter doesn't about that. My suggestion on that would be to have let's have the MLJW board examine any issues like that and bring you all recommendation.

—

Do they need to bring a charter change to us or does that have to go to voters?

—

Well, they would have to they would have to bring that to you all, sir. It's not a charter change. They would have to bring you any recommendation of salary increase. Not a charter change. You all decide that. But I think that's something we can decide in the future. For now, we're in the window of being competitive for these salaries. I just want to make sure appreciate you asking that and I'll have my board do good collaboration and bring you any recommendations they may have. I have two years left on my appointment that you all so we have a little bit of time to work on that and so I appreciate you bringing that up but I'll have to make sure the board does a thorough examination brings you something that's fully vetted so you can consider it in the future.

—

Thank you madam chair. Thank you miss

—

sir.

—

Thank you councilman. Um, let the record show that Councilman Spinosza and Councilwoman Logan have joined us. And next in the queue, we have Councilwoman Cooper Sutton. You have the floor.

—

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you,
18:17

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

President McGallen. I have two questions for that.

—

Locally, are we having a hard time? And Councilman Warren answered one of the questions that I was going to inquire about, but locally for this position here, are we having a hard time finding someone locally in the Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas area.

—

Um the candidates, well, I'll be frank for this specific safety position, the candidates are all from this particular area because we have in the public power model of the Tennessee Valley. You know, that covers seven states and the candidates who who are competitive for this are all from within that area. In fact, the leading candidates are from the state of Tennessee and obviously eager to come be a part of Memphis. If they weren't Memphis natives, they want to come be a part of what we have happening here. On the HR side, we had attraction from all over the country. Uh the folks who were the most competitive, our local folks here from the area. Uh some of them may have been Memphians before and moved away and they've come back. But so we have a good talent pool here. Sometimes we constrain ourselves just in the city of Memphis, but the talent pool from the utility industry from across the Tennessee Valley is pretty strong. We are competing nationally for that talent pool. Um but when we do our market survey, we compare us to the to the folks in kind of our catchment area here. So

—

my second is I just like to the lead a couple months ago by the lead project. Where are we and how are we moving forward with that? Okay. These houses

—

Oh, absolutely. Okay.

—

Yeah. Very good. So, um we're a little more aggressive with Councilman Councilman Warren. We actually he built a new house, put new lines in. Our team was ready to go check his lines because there was some discrepancy in the record. But, so a couple of things I'll just I'll just mention this council. Thank you for asking that. I just want to level set everybody as we have a
20:17

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

minute. Um, you know, lead is something that we want to get out. It's in our paint from before the 1979. It can be in some of the pipes before it was outlawed by the EPA in 1986. In Shelby County, prior to 197 in 19 the mid 1970s, Shelby County outlawed it as a material to use. So if your house is built after the 1970s, there's no danger of you having lead because it wasn't allowed to be used. On the public side, MLGW stopped using lead service lines in the 1950s. So if your house was built after 1950, there will not be a lead service line that MLGW installed. So what we are doing are two things. Number one, we're removing the lead service lines that MLGW had that were installed prior to 1950. We have been doing that since 2012, and we have removed more than 15 or 20,000 of those so far. We probably have about 15,000 of those to go. We're doing about 2,000 a year on the side between the meter and the house. That's what your contractor installs when they built your house. We are doing uh we finished a pilot last year and this year we have money enough through the state to do about five to six00 homes. We're replacing the private side using that state money um with services that we know to be constructed of lead or we suspect to be constructed of lead where we replace the MLGW lead service line. Now, the state has a revolving loan fund. We have laid claim to that. Uh we have asked for $10 million a year for each of the next five years uh to help us with that lead service line on the private side. And I do want to be clear. Um, we are asking this because the majority of people in Shelby County do not have lead service lines. And if we were to use rateayers money to do this, everybody else would be paying for us to replace it on the private side. So, we're trying to use as much federal grant and state money as we
22:17

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

can to do this work. Probably won't be enough. So, we'll have to come to you for a solution in the future. But, we are making progress on the private side. So, that's about 500 will get done this year. will request the 10 million from the state. We should be able to double the number that we do. The other thing that's important to note about this, we're very pleased that we were able to put an RFP out for a local contracting firm for a local contractor who's doing this work for us. So that's additional employees that they're hiring to go do this work. So it is an uplift in the job market. So these contractors can hire local people to do this lead service work. So we're on a path. The Trump administration has said that they're going to stick with the Biden administration's guidance to remove all these by 10 years from now. That's an aggressive timeline. There's not enough federal money. They think it's about $90 billion all in to do this across the country. And they've allocated $15 billion. So, we're working with the state. We're working with state revolving loan fund and looking for resources to be able to get this done. I will tell you that we are the first utility in the state that is aggressively doing this. We have asked for basically I just told the state if nobody else is laying claim to the money we'll take it all and we'll do it all here. There are other folks that say well it's private side it's not our responsibility. We think we have an obligation here to at least show the way and lead the charge. So that's what we're doing. Council we'll keep I have a full presentation. We'll give you a full update on that and uh that's where we are.

—

All right. And I just thought of one more thing. Yeah. As you were talking and as I was sitting here,

—

um

—

I know that the bills are extremely high. We have a lot of customers that are really um are unable to adjust to what their bill has is now showing because of the cold weather. And I know that we have programs that have been put in place. However, the customers because I saw two or three
24:19

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

on television talking about them not being home at the time,

—

right?

—

Them not being present at the time. And they could not understand the the increase. It's it's like it double double doubled

—

uh increase. And so one person went back to 2005 and said looked at their water usage and then they looked at their electric usage and nothing had really changed but the dollar amount. And so are you experiencing high call volumes just trying to get to understand the usage from 2025 to what it is now

—

or um is there any part of your MLGW doing any investigation because that's kind of strange if the usage of the water and electricity is the same as 2025 but the build has doubled and I know there was another increase I have not forgotten that part of it um because I'm getting a lot of calls and I am directing them to you you know, protocol. I'm trying to do protocol before, you know, but just kind of publicly, you know, express what you're really doing. And I know there are programs out there trying to help the customers, but however, when someone is not home and they're not using that amount of electricity, what are we doing as far as is there an investigation goes in that part? Do we send someone out there to investigate and to look at the meters and then um convey that information from your side to the customer?

—

I thank you for asking that question, man, because absolutely we take action on everyone. I'm going to give you three specific examples that were all in the news. One of the customers said that her bill doubled and went, you know, to $1,000. What was untold is that she had a $500 balance from the previous month that was not paid. So, her actual charges were $400, but she carried forward $500 from the previous month that wasn't paid and
26:21

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

then claimed, "I have a $1,000 bill, which is not true. Her consumption was consistent with what it was." So, we do an investigation. We talked to the customers there. Another customer did have a very high electric consumption and her bu and we checked the meter. was operating perfectly. And we went to check her apartment and when our technician was in there, he noticed that she has a very old apartment and he was hearing a loud noise from the blower motor. And they turned the air conditioning off to try to do some investigation. And I want to be clear, this is well beyond what we're supposed to be doing in the house, but he's trying to help the customer and found that this motor never turned off. And she said, "Yeah, it's been doing that for about a month or so." Uh, we relayed that to the apartment complex. in the apartment complex said, "Yes, that's our fault for maintenance and we're going to take care of that for you. So, they're going to fix it and don't worry about the bill. It's our fault that the bill went high." On the customers, some several people have said the customers are not home. Now, remember, your heating system doesn't care whether you're home or not. It depends on whether your thermostat, your utilities are on. Uh, one customer who said, "I wasn't even there, but at a hotel, yes, she was in a hotel because her house was being renovated. The doors are wide open. The utilities are on. The heat's on, the electric on, the water's on. While the construction company's doing renovations inside the home, we check the meters, we check the consumption, and absolutely turn things off, the meter stops, turn things on, the meter starts again. So, there is actual consumption. Even though the resident isn't there, there's a construction company doing work inside the home. So, that level of detail we do on all of these to make sure that our customers know, look, I don't want to charge you one more dollar than I need to. I want to make sure that you're that you're getting everything you pay for. And so we do a detailed dive in all of these. Mr. Davis's team and our customer service folks go out there and meet the customers where they are to talk through them. And typically we get to a pretty good resolution whether you know it's the customer who had the additional bill from the month before. What can we do to spread that out? Um and there are some customers who said, "Boy, my my bill went up from November to December to
28:22

Show transcript (9 turns)

—

January." Like yes, it did because it got colder. We we actually go back and our team compares them to previous years and say to your point, your consumption, here's what your consumption was and it's relatively consistent from year to year based on those cold months. So, are we going to be 100% perfect? No. But we look at those ones that are in the news, anything you send to us, we're going to investigate and make sure that we have a clean answer on what that was. And if it looks like it's our fault, then we're going to make an adjustment for the customer. if it looks like it's not. We had a customer that said, "My water bill is incredibly high." We went over, our meter technician said, "Yep, that water register just stopped working." He replaced the register. We immediately gave a customer a credit on her bill for that use. So, if it looks like it's our fault, we're going to give them credit back and we're going to do an investigation every time.

—

Thank you. And one more. I just thought of another one. every time you say something and I'll be done. Chair uh Madam Chair, the penny program.

—

Yes.

—

Are people automatically

—

share the pennies?

—

Yeah. Are they automatically in that program? Is that was that a program a couple years ago? And I was just trying to do some investigation

—

that they you just automatically put people in that program without their consent or do they have to opt out?

—

They have to opt out. When city council, this was a city councilled program. Councilwoman Robinson put share the pennies program in and that's how it was originally crafted was that customers have to opt out of share the pennies. So hear me now if you're a customer and you don't want to participate share the pennies which is just a round up to the next dollar and that money all goes to weatherization for customers who have older homes with high bills so it helps them with their weatherization. Then you can opt out through my account. You can go into our customer service any of our community centers community offices and opt out of that. Uh but now plus one is another program that's opt in and you can add money to your bill to help correct assistance. So there's one is an opt out, one is an optin.

—

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam
30:23

Show transcript (17 turns)

—

Chair.

—

Thank you, Councilwoman. Next, we'll hear from Councilman Ford Senior. You have the floor.

—

Good morning.

—

Good morning, sir.

—

Yes. Uh President, I just want to commend you and your group. Okay. I've been here a long time. You're the only one that have made all these different changes for the better. I've been here what? 20 something almost 30 years.

—

Started when you were 17, sir.

—

Huh?

—

You started when you were 17.

—

You got to put quite a few more. I'm 70 years old going on 71.

—

Yeah. Still here. Both been dead about 15 years ago with the job that I do, but I'm still here for some reason. I don't know. But like I said, I just forgot to commend you. Now, you brought up something which I was going to bring up. City of Memphis, we have light, gas, and water.

—

Yes, sir.

—

All these other place, like you said, utility, everything is usually separate. When you're trying to hire somebody too, you got to look at all of those different things because we're doing it all in one,

—

whereas everywhere and have a place in Mobile. Everything is separated. But when you start adding up what they do down there is more than up here. Yes,

—

sir. We still are the largest three sector utility municipal utility in the country. We have more than we have about a million and 10,000 meters that we monitor electric, gas, and water.

—

Then you end up saying your appointment is two more years, right?

—

That's what I have left. You guys approved me about three years or the prior council approved me about three years ago. So December of 2027 is when my appointment's up. Yes, sir.

—

Yeah. So don't even think about retirement. Okay? Please don't do that because like I said, hey,
32:23

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

I see the difference. I don't know if other people see the difference or if they want to see the difference,

—

but since you have taken this particular office, hey, we've seen the difference. You brought everybody in. That's perfect.

—

Thanks. You know, and like that water your employees. I got a hell of a job. We had a ice storm once before. No, not that far back. You ain't got to go that far back. Okay. We were blessed this time. We had all that ice and nothing really was on the lines. We were really blessed. My lights were off in the neighborhood. People were complaining you're not doing it fast enough. Finally, they got to our neighborhood. It was night time where it was they had to take this actually back. They had to try to get up in there. But my driveway, the way it shaped where they were, my headlights helped them. I stayed in my car five hours running my car to give them some life because my headlight went straight to help them. They never stopped until they were finished. Five hours. That's why I said they got a hell of a job. But I learned then be patient, okay? Because what they do, they're going to do it and they move further and move further and move further. But I did that and it helped because it was dark and they had they put my lights and I put them on high beam. Hey, really helped them kind of probably speed everything up a little bit better.
34:24

Show transcript (17 turns)

—

We got great folks and we got great customers. Everybody's got great stuff on the front lines out there especially. And I appreciate you saying all that those kind words, Councilman. Look, I love what I do and um so it's a privilege to serve everybody.

—

Appreciate you. That's all I

—

Thank you. And um finally from yours truly. Um President McGawan, have we had an update recently on Goodlet Farms Parkway?

—

Not recently, man. We closed on that building in December. uh our team is the engineers are going through and they're making the design for that control room right now. So actually tomorrow I have an update on where we are with the design of the control room in the emergency operations center. So um it is still it is now MLW's possession. Smith and Nephew, the former owner of the building still has about a third of the building occupied with their employees. They're renting it from us for the next two years or so. And so part of the cleaning contract you saw today is they cleaned it for the first six months. We now have the contract for cleaning. They're going to pay us some common area maintenance which will help offset that cost while we're over the next two years, we'll be building out that um new system operations center and emergency operations center. So, I'll give you an update and

—

the next meeting. That'll be great.

—

Sure. Yeah, I can do that and tell you what what's planned for out there.

—

Okay, sounds great. And I can have Allison to follow up with a reminder.

—

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Have to.

—

Okay. If there's no one else, nothing else, this will go downstairs for a positive recommendation.

—

Thank you, ma'am.

—

Seeing there are no other questions and comments from this committee.

—

Okay.

—

I'll make a comment real quick. Uh, President McGowan was just looking at me, we're going to discuss um security cameras on light poles and we may have something for that coming up soon.

—

Sounds great.

—

Thank you, President McG. He was just making sure he got back.

—

Thank you. We are journ.

—

Thank you
37:52

Show transcript (15 turns)

—

I'd like to call the economic development uh tourism and technology committee to order. Could we please have a roll call?

—

Councilwoman Walker

—

present.

—

Councilwoman Logan

—

present.

—

Councilwoman Cooper Sutton

—

Councilman Spinosa.

—

Uh Councilman Warren

—

also present. and Councilman Ford.

—

Thank you. Um, today colleagues, we're going to have a brief update on the Sherin Hotel, uh, to let everyone know where we are with that. U, as you all know, this is a very important thing as far as our downtown development is concerned. Uh, I do have a question on that picture that's in the top left because I'm trying to figure out where that red building is. It's right behind the the I guess the dock. Is this like a AI generated photo is what I want to know. So y'all tell me where that red building is that square there. Anybody have any idea what that is? Okay. elevator.

—

Bill Street Landing. It's on top of Bill Street Landing. Okay. I just have never noticed that before. All right. Thank you. Go ahead. And you guys have the for name and address for record. Thank you.

—

David Lewis with Carile Development One Dr. ML King Jr. Avenue. Stephen Callagher with the same address one Dr. Martin Luther King Avenue.

—

John Zena, chief of development and infrastructure.

—

Gentlemen, you have the floor.

—

Yeah, I'll allow Stephen and David to go
39:54

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

through the presentation uh to give us an update on the project. Sure. So, uh I'm assuming everyone had an opportunity to review the slide presentation. We won't go into all the details that are contained in the slide presentation, but overall we've been charged with renovating and converting this hotel to a Marriott hotel. What that entails is bringing it up to today's standards for Marriott. So, it would be a a great representation of the brand, not just for the city of Memphis, but also for Marriott hotels in general.

—

So, is Marriott a higher brand in Sherin? Yes, it is. Okay.

—

Yes, it is. It is. It is the core brand for Marriott International. And the the reason that we chose that was we wanted to stay within the Marriott family. Sherin is now owned by Marriott, but quite frankly, the Sherin brand is not what it used to be. Marriott is well above that in terms of its perception and in our opinion, the quality of what we want to deliver for the convention center in the city of Memphis. So in undertaking that renovation and conversion, we also looked at what could we do to make this hotel more relevant today than it has been in the past, which includes reorienting the entrance to the hotel so that it interacts and complements the convention center much better than it does today. Today the entrance to the hotel, the portico share is on the north side. We're moving that to the southwest side directly across the street from the entrance to the convention center. So if you see where the connector is on the second floor, the main entrance is going to be just to the south of that. We're also adding some meeting space. That'll be new construction that'll entail a 14,800 foot ballroom that'll be on the second
41:55

Show transcript (9 turns)

—

floor. and we're expanding the junior ballroom to make that about 7,800 square feet. So, a total square footage of meeting space about 32,000 square feet. Um, we also are looking at everything that we can do from an exterior point of view to make that hotel much more attractive than it is today. Part of that will be new construction, particularly on the first through, let's say, fourth floors. Um, so that'll be uh on that south side where you see it today up on the screen. Really making that much more appealable to the public. And then we're also going to make some adjustments to the the towers as well.

—

Is that particular architectural design sort of brutalism or what would you call that?

—

I I'm not Maybe that's the appropriate word. I mean that's that's a that's a a type of architecture, you know, from

—

a time period. I don't

—

Yeah.

—

Yeah. I'm just not exactly sure how you how you can fix what's there, but I'd really like to see you try.

—

Yeah.

—

Yeah.

—

And and so today, what we have is conceptual plan of how we're going to orient the building and how we're going to manipulate the space. We hope to have some renderings in the near future that will show what we expect the exterior to look like and and that'll that should answer some of those questions. Um I'm going to I'm going to turn this over to David and let him explain just what how we're undertaking this design. We the city closed on the hotel in November. So it took us a minute, especially during the holidays, to get our consultants in place to really examine the building and everything about the building from the roof to the systems. And there's virtually nothing that we are not going to touch in this renovation and conversion. I think that's a really important point for the citizens to understand is this particular hotel is in dire need of help and nobody was
43:56

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

coming in to do that until we decided we would do it and it's right next to our convention center. If we didn't, we'd be in trouble. Let the record show that Councilwoman Logan is here and please continue. So prior to uh closing on the hotel, we had uh underwent a selection process for an architect that was done. We had uh engaged them on a limited basis for concept work before the closing which we knew was imminent. So we we had a little bit of a head start. Um so the concept work has has been done which is in this package. uh just identifying what's going to happen to the ground floor, where the new meeting space is going to go, uh how the new interest is oriented and how people are going to get in and out of the hotel. We also engaged uh consultants in in the process very early. Um so over the last 6 to 8 weeks we've had uh exterior envelope consultants, kitchen and laundry equipment, mechanical, plumbing, electrical, civil engineer, all of them have been in the building surveying what's there, what's u mechanical equipment, plumbing, electrical, what's at the end of its service life, what can we keep in place and save uh budget on. So that's that's been ongoing. Uh we've got a set of of schematic design documents that will be issued in April that will incorporate uh the design work required by the Marriott property improvement plan and the additional meeting space and the reorientation that we've talked about and all the other priorities that that the uh the mayor and his administration have have communicated to us as as well knowing what the market uh really is demanding for a convention hotel now and
45:56

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

that schematic design document set will be issued in April that will have these concept drawings the exteriors and narratives on all those systems we talked about mechanical electrical plumbing so that the the construction manager can then take that set of documents go get pricing and we'll have a a new idea a better idea of what the construction will cost. Meanwhile, we have uh we have taken proposals from purchasing agents who will assist in purchasing all the furniture, fixtures of equipment, all the operating supplies, and they will start to run numbers on what the furniture is going to cost. That's that's the the big piece is the construction. The next big piece is all the furniture. Um, for six, you know, roughly 600 keys, lots of meeting space. Almost all the furniture in the in the hotel is end of life or beyond. So, it's all being replaced. Um, the kitchen equipment for the most part is being replaced and we're adding banquet kitchen facilities as well. So, there will be a lot of purchasing in addition to the construction. So um as as we work from that April set of documents into May, that's when we'll probably have a much better picture of cost estimates. We'll get the financial performers updated at that time and have a a new u financial package that will that will more accurately show the path between where we are in May and where we need to be for a bond sale and closing beginning of next year. So the design process goes through um the holidays this year. uh the contractor that we select will then price that set of documents. That that set of documents will go be submitted for permit plan review and then early 2027 we'll have
47:59

Show transcript (8 turns)

—

all that wrapped up and can start construction. colleagues. Um, I can tell you when I came on the council, we were told by the people that owned this hotel, Sherin, that they were going to be putting money in and doing updates and things along that line, and that never really happened. So, I think that's why we are where we are today. Thank you for that. Um, so looking at this, you're saying that we're hoping to be finished and have this hotel updated. I think in that packet I read by 2029.

—

Correct.

—

Is that correct?

—

That's correct.

—

So, this is going to take three years to do this amount of construction and we're going to have to float bonds to do this. Is that correct?

—

That's correct. But the the strategy that we're looking at today is through a 501c3 that would actually sell those bonds as opposed to the city of Memphis's 501c3. So, we've got that mechanism that we set up when we started this process, the 50 the nonprofit 5013C that's going to do the bonds, get this thing up to snuff, and then that 5013C is going to put this hotel back on the market for people to buy. Is that correct?

—

Well, they'll they'll actually own the hotel throughout the the the bond the bond life.

—

It's for the benefit of the city of Memphis. So once the bonds are paid for annually, any leftover cash flow benefits the city comes to the city. Once the bonds are paid for completely, the ownership reverts to the city. The city could at that point sell the hotel on the private market if they so choose. of course at that you know during that life cycle of 30 years there'll be other renovations which part of the underwriting undertakes those reserves so that this hotel maintains that quality throughout the life of the bonds I also wanted to point out that I know there's been a lot of discussion in the
50:00

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

public how does this cost so much right and you have to understand that this hotel was built in two phases once in the 80s and then in the 2000s we're not renovating what you can touch and feel. We're renovating systems that the public or a guest expects to work, right? So, you expect the the heat to work, you expect the air conditioning to work, you expect the elevators to work, all the plumbing. Those are things that cost money and haven't been touched in a long, long period. So, we're touching all of that. We're renovating all of that. As David said, the the kitchen equipment is all being replaced because it's end of life. Now, we're mindful of a budget and we're just not going to spend money unwisely, but we're also not going to do something that is on the cheap side, right? So, as you look at some of the renderings that were provided previously before our involvement or the city's involvement, quite frankly, a lot of that was unaffordable. It looked good, right? But the idea that you're going to completely reskin the building with glass was very is is very cost prohibitive. Now, we are going to undertake doing things to make it much more attractive, but we realize that we're trying to work within a budget, and our hope is to is to, you know, get this ahead of schedule and under budget. I mean, that's that's really our job. We're going to work our hardest to make sure that we do that and hopefully we can improve upon the schedule. Now, the hotel is going to remain open during this, but we're going to work closely with the other hotels within the city of Memphis. Everybody is on board to to make this a as best experience as possible during that construction period from 27 and 28. So, we we we know we need to get this online by 2029.

—

Okay. Thank you. We have a couple
52:00

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

questions from other uh council council people. Uh Councilwoman Logan, you have the floor.

—

Thank you, chair. I want to make sure that the record does reflect that I've been here the whole time.

—

Sorry. I was It was my mistake when I saw that. I thought you come in. I didn't realize it was the cube.

—

No problem. Um and thank you all for the presentation, the update. I know the um public is excited to hear the update. My question for you regarding the Riverline Hotel has to do with uh the design process and I um wanted to know what percentage of the renovation is a result of surveys and assessments and feedback from um our the groups that have come before conventions that have reached out and been here um their their concerns or experiences. reviews. Um, and what percentage is from you all reimagining a worldass hotel and what needs to happen there within the budget of course, but making it um this is this is, you know, our convention hotel where the city began this undertaking to make certain that that hotel was a premier is going to be a premier hotel. So, you know, I've I looked at all of this, but it's hard for me to tell what is being added that is going to that is the value ad. Um these things that I see are pretty much standard but I don't know you know in terms of the design and what your process and what people are asking for that will continue to attract those top-notch conventions and things like that. So if you could kind of let us know what's setting us apart in this design and um what percentage comes from the the needs that have that have been asked and what percentage comes from your re-imagine worldass hotel and some
54:01

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

of the things I particularly like the NBA we have an NBA team and some of the NBA players or teams have voiced that their experience here as it relates to hotels has not been the best. So what are we doing to just have that added value and within that budget that you have. So thank you.

—

I yield back. So, I I'll try to answer all these and if I miss one, please let me know. Um, we

—

get a little bit more in front of the mic.

—

I'm sorry. We we leverage all of the the people that are involved in the hotel today. So, that is Marriott International and their expertise with not just the city of Memphis, but all their convention center hotels. We also leverage the operator Davidson Hotels. Now, Davidson did operate the hotel before another group came in to operate and that's really where things went sideways. Davidson's a great operator and they operate convention center hotels. So, we also leverage their knowledge within the industry as well and their the input that they receive from group participants, convention participants. So, not directly but certainly indirectly we are taking all of that information into consideration. And if I could, I don't know if I could skip ahead on the presentation to point out a few things, but so stop right there for a minute. Th this shows how we're reorienting the hotel. So, as you see, A is the hotel entrance. That of course is to make it interact with the convention center better than it has before. You know, previously it was somewhat of a I don't want to say afterthought, but it just didn't really engage with the convention center. So that's that's direct input from conventioneers, right? The other thing we're adding is if you see D, that's a ballroom. So we're going to add a 14,000 foot 800 14800 square foot ballroom and that will complement the convention center, not compete with the convention center with the the types of groups that
56:01

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

we accommodate in the city of Memphis, social groups, sports teams. That will help tremendously. We're also an event lawn where the on the north side where the parking the surface parking at the hotel is today. Most of the parking is under the convention center, but that little amount of parking that we have, we're going to make that an event lawn and that's going to help not just with groups coming in, but locally as well, right? And so, as we undertook all of this, we leveraged the knowledge of all the experts that we are dealing with. One of the things we're also doing is adding rooms. And if you could skip ahead to the next uh next uh slide. Um one more please. Uh keep going. Let's see where there. Oh, one more. There. Okay. Um so what you'll notice is there are some new guest rooms that are being built above the grand ballroom. And the reason we're doing that is we want to maintain the room count of around 600 rooms. We're going to lose some room count in the towers by adding suites. So to your point about NBA teams or conventions that we want to attract, we thought that was very important to give the hotel and the convention center um you know the suites to sell and attract that higher rated business that we want to come into the city of Memphis. Uh those will be in the towers and they'll be at a higher level because the suites you really want them to have a better view and and you know to get suites we have to take some rooms out of out of you know the inventory. So we're going to add some rooms here. This also gives us the benefit of of hosting sports groups, youth groups, that sort of thing where you can isolate them in the hotel. They won't disrupt the rest of the hotel. So I I would say that we we didn't undertake surveys with the public, but we we had conversations with the operators and the brands about what is most important for a convention center hotel.
58:02

Show transcript (11 turns)

—

Right. No. And I wasn't I didn't think you were handing out surveys to the people more so uh reviews and the convention center staff. they are the ones that are trying to sell and you know their input um they have great insight as to what you know the groups were asking for what we're missing. Um so that's what I meant but thank you for answering that. The the second question is it relates to access. I heard you say that or did I hear you say the majority of the parking was going to be at the convention center because I know that that um you reorienting the entrance that's a small little there. So for folks coming there, you know, to the um hotel, the parking and access, can you kind of share a little bit about that? And that's my last question.

—

Yeah, we So it would be valet parking, which is what it is today.

—

It's in the back, right? It's on the north.

—

There there are two entrances actually to the convention center parking. One is off of Front Street and then one is on the hotel property on the it's really underneath the the ballroom there.

—

Um we're also adding an event entrance. So as we have you know events that take place it'll take pressure off the portico and that's just north and you'll see it in the packet. It'll show that that entrance. We have a lease for the parking spaces and we're going to maintain that lease as far as the parking is concerned. So we we're not adding any parking.

—

We are not adding any parking.

—

Okay.

—

Thank you. Go ahead.

—

I would add when we brought our architect on board, we we spent a lot of time on on the property, including with Dean Dennis, who is um

—

the soon to be director,

—

soon to be. But um and spent a lot of time with with Dean and his team walking through the con convention center and kind of back and forth between the hotels and talking about what their priorities might be and um how how our
1:00:05

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

how this property interacts with the convention center and how we can make those interactions better. I'm glad to see that you all took a uh are taking a holistic approach and are considering all of that and working with um the hotel and I'm looking forward to see it unfold and your um return with the design. So, thank you. I go back.

—

Thank you, Madam Chair. Councilwoman Walker, uh you have the floor and a gentleman realized that we were supposed to be through at 9:10. So, be succinct in your answers. Please go ahead, Madam Chair. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, in regard to that southwest corner and you were speaking about moving the entrance and um the reasoning behind that, um I'm I'm clear on that and I don't have an issue with that. But in that area, there's a restaurant. There has been a restaurant with a patio that empties out onto um Main Street. Will that still be intact? Are you going to renovate the restaurant? Are you moving the restaurant or just doing away with it at all?

—

The the the lobby gets completely reoriented and if we can go maybe back one um so some some of that building footprint exists now and some of it is is new. So um

—

well one more back. Yep, there we go. So, the restaurant will still sit at the at the corner, but even more prominently at the corner. Um, so there will still be right there. It's all part of a reoriented lobby where you come in and you still walk in from Main Street, but that's also where the the vehicle drop off is. And then on exchange, which is just to the right of the page, uh the city uh has a some grant dollars to do ex uh improvements on along exchange and some other streets in the area. So, we're taking advantage of that. We're working with them as a stakeholder to
1:02:05

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

provide input on what we want that design to be so that works really well for our hotel and convention guests. And so that restaurant will now have some patio space on exchange versus on main. And then we'll have lots of space on exchange for landscaping and heartscaping and programmable events.

—

Okay. Still have the um patio. Thank you for that. And then can you briefly speak to uh what you're doing in regard to ADA compliance? ADA compliance is part of the property improvement plan from from Marriott and part of our overall approach to to the project. So we'll we're looking at uh right sizing the number of ADA accessible rooms, hearing impaired, visual visual impairment rooms, and doing a complete survey of the property to make sure that the sidewalks and the um approaches and and all of that is is up to compliance. There's there are some areas of the hotel that are questionable right now. So, that will all be addressed by our architect and we'll have an independent ADA consultant on the project as well.

—

Okay. Thank you. And finally, Mr. Chair, um this is um you all have already made reference to, you know, the the amount of money being spent on this project and it's a lot of money. Um how do we know at some point, how do we know who the vendors are going to be? We want to make sure that the um contracts are as um appropriate, as equitablely distributed as possible with um of course minority and female participation. So how do we have access to that information? H how are you going about that part?

—

Any sort of uh vendor or subcontract uh announcements will put in u in the different bid rooms around town,
1:04:06

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

the different organizations that promote uh bids for all types of subcontractors and vendors. And uh we'll have we'll hold pre-bid meetings at different locations with our construction manager to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to provide proposals on the project. The major proposals uh for for instance construction manager, those go out as a formal request for proposal and those have to be highly qualified, you know, large firms uh based on the the funding, you know, risk profile requirements. But, uh, for subcontractors and vendors, those will be publicly announced and we'll have public meetings to introduce those packages to those vendors and subcontractors.

—

Okay. So, when you have the public meetings, can you all share that information with the council? And also, I'll have my analyst to follow up with you because I know we're running short for time, but I'm I'm curious about that phrase, highly qualified. Thank you. I yield the floor.

—

Excellent questions. Uh I think we are through with qu one more question from Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.

—

You have the floor, ma'am. Chairman, there's a couple questions and I think that hopefully you all can ask. I think I heard you mention something about a package um that you all will be delivering because in the package I want to see the development budget. I want to see the contraction uh the contract um the construction budget and I would like to see the source and use bud budget all that in the package. Uh just picking back off of what um Councilwoman Walker said because these are tax dollars funds. The second thing that has raised a red flag and I called because I have a couple I have a friend that's in the hotel business. The name change. The question I need to ask is are we white flagged right now?

—

I'm not sure I understand that question.
1:06:08

Show transcript (14 turns)

—

What does that mean?

—

Are we white flag? That means the name has changed. And maybe director deputy Gina uh John can ask us answer that question for me because when a name change are we still under the Marriott status?

—

Yes. So the name change is temporary. It's just during our design and construction period. That was a requirement of entering into the franchise agreement with Marriott because the hotel does not meet any brand standards.

—

That's what I thought. And it loses its init incentives. it loses its

—

No, it's still on the Marriott reservation.

—

So, it's still under there.

—

Yes. It's so it's what's called a gray label. And so,

—

so it's not a white label, it's a gray label.

—

It's a gray label. So, when you go on marriott.com or bonvoy.com, the hotel will show up. You will still get your points. And that that we really wanted to make sure we maintain that, but it was really not our choice. Marriott dictated that we had to deflag it as a Sherin, which they're doing not only to this hotel, but any Sheran that's not meeting brand standards, which there are a lot of them. And that's why we wanted to get away from the Sherin name. Um, and so we came up with a temporary name that will last through construction and then it will become the Marriott Hotel, downtown Memphis Renaissance Convention Center, uh, fully engaged with Marriott International at that time.

—

So, I you will present be presenting that package. Am I correct?

—

Yes. Yes, ma'am. We're we are not

—

the full I would like I think the council I know the architect and the beauty part but the business part because these are taxpayers dollars into making sure that when you are gray flagged or white flag in a hotel, it loses certain kind of funding. Am I correct?

—

No. I mean it it still operates as a regular hotel. What funding are you speaking of?

—

Because you're using the taxpayers dollars. I know what I'm talking about. But however, I want to make sure that we do not
1:08:08

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

put this burden on the taxpayers's back. That is so very very very important to uh the citizens here in Memphis and that's a lot of uh questions I'm getting and I know that we've been here a long time and we've I know they ready to move forward because we need a good hotel. But also the business part is very important to me on handle how you handle the business part. That's very important because these are taxpayers dollars. We want a state-of-the-art hotel. Yes, we do. And I don't care who owns it, who's doing it, and who names on it. The thing is, if we want to do business and we want to do business, and we want to do good business, and we want to make sure that the city of Memphis has a good return and a good revenue on the dollars that are being used. And you know, I'm just make sure that the package has everything, the source of usage, the construction, the developers. I want to see, you know, just everything. I see John down and I'm about to yield in just a minute. But those are questions that are important to the citizens and our taxpayer dollars who is supporting this project. I yield. Thank you.

—

Thank you. And u I think what I'm going to do is offline I'm going to see if I can get Mr. Zena to sort of talk a little bit more about the funding of this because I think this is a bond issue that's going to be going. So that that's sort of how we're going to be funding it and uh it's not ready for us to like to be able to to talk all the details. All right. Excellent. Any other questions? If not, I think we'll be ajourned. Thank you very much.
1:31:40

Show transcript (12 turns)

—

here. Good morning again, colleagues. It's Tuesday, March 3rd, and it is now 10 o'clock a.m. We're a little bit late. I hereby call the Housing and Community Development Committee of the Memphis City Council to order. Miss Gia, please call the role.

—

Yes, ma'am. Councilman Spinosa. Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.

—

Councilwoman White.

—

Chair Logan present. Colleagues, we

—

Oh, sorry.

—

Oh, okay. All right. Um, colleagues, we have three items on the agenda. And the first item is a discussion regarding the resolution approving the option to enter into a 50-year ground lease for the construction and operation of multif family residential apartments on the upper two floors of the historic Melrose school building and multif family residential affordable town home and apartment units on an additional 1.03 acres of the site with Melrose Housing Partners LLC. District 4, Super District 8, sponsored by administration. Who from administration is going to speak on this item?

—

Uh, good morning, Ashley Cash.

—

Go ahead and give us your address and you are recognized.

—

Great. Thank you so much, Chair. Ashley Cash, uh, housing and community development director, 170 North Main. I have the development partner here. I will allow him to introduce himself.

—

Absolutely. Welcome.

—

Good morning, everyone. My name is Saki Middleton. Company name is John Stanley. address is 655 Deep Valley Drive, Sweet 325B, Rolling Hills Estates, California 90724.

—

Great. Thank you. And we've got a short presentation. So, we came last week actually and presented the project leaving out um a good amount of project details and so we've gone back and added those into the presentation. So, we'll just go through uh here. We are coming before y'all to request approval for an option for Miss uh Melrose Housing Partners to enter into a 50-year ground lease at $1 per year. The option will be
1:33:41

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

for floors two and three of the existing Orangebound Library along with uh a little over an acre site that is on Douglas and uh at Douglas and Dallas. The development is 51 units. Um we'll talk a little bit about the the project detail, but 24 apartments within the library and then uh 16 town homes, 11 flats uh on the adjacent site. All units will be available for people at or below 80% of the area median income. And then just to talk a little bit about the schedule so far, uh the developer was awarded a million dollars from the affordable housing trust fund. Uh the um they have received projectbased vouchers from MHA. They have gone through reszoning requests through lanes control board and Memphis City Council that was approved and they have been issued a 20-year pilot uh with MHA. The next steps in this project is to uh request execution of a ground lease option. I want to clarify they are um requesting a lease option. Council, if you so choose, would approve that option and then they would come back before council to um exercise that lease and enter into a full lease. Of course, that will be reviewed and approved by council as well. We are here today because they are anticipating applying for 4% low-inccome tax credits. That uh process is open now and closes I think on the 19th. I think you just verified. Um and there are a couple of conditions relative to the option. Secure financing, secure the tax credits, and the lease would has have to be exercised before the end of the year. The construction period on this project would start at the end of 2026 and go through about Q2 of 2028 with lease up um shortly thereafter. And then I did just want to mention before I move to this uh well um relative to the $1 per year uh margins on affordable projects are tight. And so the $1 per year rent really allows um
1:35:42

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

the project to maintain its operating into both maintenance and staffing at the site um and not necessarily coming back to the city, but we are contributing to that affordable housing. So briefly the background of this project, we started um with the abandoned historic Melrose building. Uh the city did an RFP in 2019 for the project. that we the city invested a little bit over $17 million into the construction and rehab of the first floor of that building uh being the Orange Mound Library and Genealogy Center. There were also some minor improvements um windows throughout the entire building. But then in terms of the uh upper two floors that would benefit the developer, there was some cleanout um some additional uh improvements made that I will mention here in a moment. Um, specific to the project, we contributed, I'd say about a million dollars in site work and um, parking lot um, improvements. We also did a few things. We did a separate tenant entrance. We did an elevator tower. Um, we added sewer capacity within the library and um, added some additional room in the electrical room so that it can accommodate the future uh, housing on that site. And this is a photo um there we go. This is a photo of the existing building, the first floor. You can see kind of the the uh parking lot in your upper left. Uh those back two areas that have that black awning, those are additions just to make the room accommodation for the library space. Um and then this slide is what currently floors two and floors three look like. So it's a cold dark shell meaning no lighting, no uh utilities, no systems are already included in um that building or that portion of the building.
1:37:43

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

Uh this is the second floor floor plan. The um the yellow color are your residential amenities. I think we've got a media room and some um that in the upper part where you see what looks like maybe some umbrellas, some circles, that's actually outdoor space. Uh and you have a variety of one-bedroom units with some accessible units. On the third floor, you have the uh activity room, a fitness center for residential amenities, and then some additional one-bedroom units and accessible units on that floor as well. And then on this slide we have just a site plan view of the historic Mro school which is where those two um floors that I just showed would be in. And then on the right hand side is the site and uh floor plan is small uh but the site and uh preliminary floor plan of the flats and the town homes which I will talk about here just in a moment. On this slide I do want to point out that the existing parking is there. the parking can accommodate um the the senior center of course has parking on front but also this is additional parking for the senior center, the library and then uh 29 additional parking spaces have been added for this project um through the configuration of the uh parcel. This went through reszoning. When we go through resoning and work through the lanes control board um the UDC dictates what parking requirements are and so this meets the requirements of the parking. There's also some on street on street parking opportunities at Douglas uh Avenue and Dallas Street. Um and this is just a view of the the building, the existing building. Actually, I think what I was trying to show I think what we're trying to show here is the existing building, but then on the left side of the screen, this portion is where those new um apartments and town homes will be. So, the town
1:39:45

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

homes will be on Douglas and then the apartments will be kind of facing this this little parking area, but then also on Dallas. This image just shows what they look like. Uh 11 flats on Dallas Street, uh 16 town homes on the Douglas side. We've tried to mirror the town home so that they can um be compatible with the single family housing that's just across the street. And then here I just wanted to share show there were some questions about access and um this slide if you look specifically at the the historic mel Melrose or the Orange Mound Library we have kind of in the middle of the screen the library entrance and so this is where everybody comes in and out of the library if they're coming from the um parking lot and then you have a separate residential entrance and so there won't be any the residents can't get to the library and people from the library can't get to the residential side from within the building. Is that accurate? Um that we also show the other entrances to the senior center um as the layout shows. This next diagram aims to show what um kind of protections or improvements are in place. And so throughout the floors, first of all, it's a concrete building. is very solid, but throughout the floors there's a reinforced concrete subfloors that provide that acoustical separation that was discussed. Um the s the sprinkler build um excuse me the senior building which is floors two and three will be protected by an independent sprinkler system uh separate from the Orange Mound Library and then the um building will also be served by a separate HVAC system that will be on the roof. uh room has already been made for that. And so we are trying to show that the systems are separate. There are protections in place to make sure that the residents are safe and the library is safe and protected and that um sound between floors and between uses will be uh mitigated.
1:41:48

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

So this portion is just to talk about the budget. Um, this construction budget is specific to phase uh what I'll call phase two, which is the housing portion of the project. The construction cost is uh about $17 million. You can see there $9 million loan, a million in tax credit equity, a million from the trust fund. This project also received $3 million from um Congressman Cohen appropriation I think in 2024. Um and then a uh community development block grant contribution. There is a little bit of CIP for mails left over um from fiscal year 24 and so we would include that in this project. And then uh deferred cost reserves just uh kind of your contingency fund that brings you to your $16 million um budget. And then what we wanted to show was uh cash flow. And so you can see here once again these are projections but cash flow scheduled rent around $650,000. um various income. This performer is running a vacancy rate of about 7%. Um operating expenses $378,000. That's typically going to be your maintenance any any maintenance reserves and any um staffing for the site. Your operating income around 200,000 a little bit over. And then cash flow is $29,000. So, not a whole lot left there to uh come back to the city, but the uh DCR is over one. So, it's 1.15, which essentially means the project can cover its debts and start to have a little bit to uh to set aside for any capital expenses that may come about as the building ages. Um the city's contribution is about $70,000 per unit. The overall cost per unit is $332,000. Um 100,000, excuse me. That's about in line. The last senior building that we funded was around $350,000. So, it really depends on new construction, rehab, but um expensive, but that is uh
1:43:48

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

in line with what we are seeing in terms of our affordable projects. Um and then these last two slides just talk about the the uh option to ground lease. Let me catch up with my notes real quick. Um essentially saying, you know, in order for the developer to exercise the option. They would have to obtain all their con construction financing. Um they do have uh potentials in place, but as with most things, they would need to show a full budget, which which the tax credits will uh enable them to do in order to finalize that construction financing piece, obtain title insurance, seek city council approval, um enter into a redevelopment agreement, and then comply with all all requirements for federal funds or any other funds that are contributed to the project. the lease term. So, we are we're looking at the lease option right now. Um, we don't have the full lease, but we do have time to work through that with the developer and also with council. Um, but we did want to share here the main terms that we've agreed upon that we think are fair for um the developer, but also reduces risk for the city. So 50 years at one uh $1 a year reversionary clause that says if we haven't done started construction within 24 months of exercising the option then it has the um the city has the option to uh receive that property back. Uh the city has the right to approve property management and remove and replace if substantial management and maintenance issues are unresolved. We want the developer to be able to maintain the property. We want uh them to be responsible and have ownership in that. Uh so we're not trying to we wanted to um sort of qualify removal of property management only if there are issues that we can't come to agreement that the current manager is um addressing. Uh developer is responsible for ongoing maintenance. The developer will maintain liability and property insurance. Developer will enter into emergency maintenance plan with the city of Memphis uh for any you know emergency issues that may arise. Um and then just
1:45:49

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

a little bit about the conveyance. We received this from uh the board of education in 2015 for about $10. The property is currently tax exempt. Uh the developer has received a pilot and this lease allows the city to um really contribute to the affordable housing needs of the city. There are a few other examples of housing of this type. Um, so in Oregon there's Cornelius's Place, which is a library and has um, uh, I think it is four floors of housing on top of actually it's a two-story library and they have four floors of affordable housing on top of the library. Um, there's also an example in Chicago where they have the library in the center and uh, four buildings of affordable housing surrounding it. And so it's really um an innovative way that the the city can use its limited resources, that being land in this case, in order to promote reduce those acquisition costs for the developer, but also promote affordable housing. Um with that, I believe that is the presentation and so I will um pause for any questions. Uh Mr. Middleton, would you like to add anything about the project? No, I mean I would just say, you know, we appreciate the public private partnership. This is um an exciting project, you know, to develop housing, you know, alongside a library and above a library and and really have this, you know, sort of intergenerational um activity of of tenants and and community. And so this is exciting for us. the project is already beautiful with the library renovation and uh we think the housing piece will add uh to a lot more beautifification to that site. Um and again we appreciate working with u with housing and the city and look forward the project uh moving forward. I think um Ashley covered everything in finite detail and so I don't have anything else to add unless there's any questions. Thanks.

—

Thank you all for your presentation.
1:47:50

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

We're glad to have you all back to give us a little bit more insight and clarity. We're all excited about all of our Accelerate Memphis projects that are underway and that um um are going to be a a really asset to the communities that they're in. And we appreciate you all understanding the dialogue that the council wants to have and you know get the information. So thank you for bringing that back. I definitely want to recognize um colleagues that have come in starting with that have joined us starting with chairwoman swearing Washington, Councilman Ford and Councilwoman Walker. And now we have in the queue some of my colleagues would like to u speak have questions and or discuss. First we have Councilwoman Cooper Sutton and then Chairwoman Swearing Washington followed by Councilwoman White in that order.

—

Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you for bringing all this information that was requested and so it gives us a little bit more insight and a little bit more um structure of how things are going. Um I did hear you say you're from California, right? And so has there been or is there any thought around, you know, we know what our past history with developers out of town has not been good partnerships. Just let me just be just totally frank. And are we Is there something in here or that we have to have a certain amount of time before you could sell it to somebody else or what is our state? Because these are our constituents that will be and our seniors that will be here and what I'm dealing with now on the back end before I even came up here and now is senior citizens. We have apartments that are built around this city and they have no recourse. They have no support. They have nothing because out of town developers are out of town and they are struggling and these are our senior citizens who have worked hard paid did their due diligence and not saying that
1:49:50

Show transcript (9 turns)

—

you would but I we need some type of protection for our constituents when we're dealing with out of town developers and that's just across the board

—

okay and then well I had some more stuff you probably got that yeah the second is when you use the word affordable that's very tricky to me. Um I think director Cash and I we talked about a year ago we had to eliminate credit scoring and these are senior citizens that are who this is dedicated to. Am I correct?

—

Uh correct. The um

—

what age?

—

One part of the building.

—

One part of the building. Is there an age when you start?

—

62 and up.

—

62 and up. Okay. and the application process. I don't know what that looks like, but we need to make sure, you know, that there are no barriers because they're excited about this. This is a community, a historical community, um, that's been here for for it's historical, but the barriers that come, we use the word affordable very loosely, but there are barriers when we use the word affordable, especially when it comes to the application process. And so we need to make sure that we structure that in a place and in an area because we know our constituents demographics and where we are. We need to pay very close attention to that part to make sure that we don't get them excited and then we give them a gut punch and they can't get in these beautiful uh establishment. Soundproof library. I hope that is considered in there because the library is a quiet place

—

and you know and it's above and so I hope that and I hope the parking is accessible when you say 62 and over we have to think about disability um I'm sure I'm going to leave that question for my council woman Walker because she is adamant about that uh as far as disability and and things of that area to make sure that everything's
1:51:52

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

accessible and that we cover and we don't miss anything. So, thank you. And I just wanted to put that out there. Uh, thank you, Chairwoman. I yield. Thank you, Madam Chair.

—

Chairwoman swearing Washington.

—

Hi, Councilwoman Cooper Sudden touched on one of the questions that I had and that was what local management would be in place to make sure that there is someone that can monitoring and can address concerns. Have we thought about that?

—

So, I will um I'll allow Mr. Middleton to talk about the property management. Uh but I did just want to mention and council, this goes to your question as well that we do we have seen that too where um a facility is beautiful once we all go to the ribbon cut and then we come back a couple of years later and it's deteriorated. Yes.

—

And so we through our experience have included and Mr. Middleton has agreed to a um the city has the ability to replace and remove the property management company. And so what we would do and we would spell this out more in more detail on the lease, but what we would do was there was a period of time, a cure period, be that 30 days, 60 days, we have to um agree and then y'all would have to approve. But there's a cure period where we say, "Hey, this maintenance issue has not been resolved. What are y'all going to do about it?" And if they are not um meeting those deadlines and that detail, then we can come in and replace the property manager with somebody who we think is performing a little bit higher. And so we have put that in there. In the full lease, we will talk about uh sale clauses. I was just looking through the lease option here. Typically, we have a notice where um the developer be it whatever cannot sell without providing notice to the city. Of course, not to be unreasonably withheld. Um we can talk together. I don't want to u make a st claim and um right here and we haven't had the opportunity to really discuss in detail but we can talk about what some options might look like in terms of city approval. A lot of times that is um the
1:53:54

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

the permanent financing will want to make sure they have approvals and they're not giving their approvals away to the city. And so that's something we just have to work through. But those are ways that we're thinking about how can we future proof the housing um component because it's in the middle of a community. it is on top of a library. We want it to be maintained. Um, and I know Mr. Middleton does great deals and he wants to one be in it for the long haul and also is about that maintenance, but obviously we have that those protections in place. Um, did you want to speak to the property management?

—

Yes, sure. Um, yeah, we we did have this conversation with um, you know, as group about property management and ability to for the city to be able to remove the property manager if there's an issue. And so we we you know, so hardly agree with that. um you know our approach you know answering the the other questions about you know barrier to entry for seniors um we you know typically criminal is the main thing you know beyond criminal if there's credit issues we believe we can work with we realize that this project is specifically designed uh for folks that are in need and you know a lot of seniors or individuals or families is probably you know one of the nicest places that may be last last place they may be housed at and So uh we sort of wave you know sort of all the credit and and so forth and so on. However, you know we we just try to put different benchmarks together and particularly the location of this property and particularly you know the support of the community. We would work with the community and work with the city of as far as you know leasing up the property uh to the appropriate folks whether it's seniors or families or individuals. So um we definitely support that. we don't we don't see that as being an issue. And then as far as you know, the ability being able to sell, um, you know, we're we're long-term owners and we're we're locked in because it's a a tax credit project financed with federal tax credits. You you can't sell for 15 years. And if you were to sell, you know, and it's our experience, even though we haven't talked about this in more detail, u you do need consent
1:55:54

Show transcript (8 turns)

—

with this from the city. So, you can't just go and sell particularly the cities put their resources in the project. And so we we acknowledge and accept language of that matter. And so um yeah, I just wanted to cover those points. If I'm missing anything, let me know. U well I'm excited about the project and um many seniors in the community. They're asking, "What about that property? What about the property? Are we going to get some more housing?" And we definitely need as much affordable housing as we can. So hopefully this will be the type of project that we will continue in other properties that we can get from um partnering with the Shelby County Schools and however. So, thank you, Director Cash, for doing your due diligence and adding all of those modifications within the presentation. Very thorough. We really appreciate it.

—

We're looking forward to an a project that's going to be uh monitored with excellence from the beginning to end. Okay,

—

sir.

—

Yes.

—

Okay. All right. Thank you. I just want to clarify that you said that you all were going to discuss local property management access and get back with us or

—

um

—

yeah I don't know if you've chosen the property manager

—

I mean we we were looking at HM heckled which is a local property manager um but you know that can change it doesn't have to be I mean we have that flexibility we'll definitely work with um Ashley's um department just to make sure they're comfortable I know they have a lot of experience with other projects and so we're we're fine with that. And to add and I think someone brought up um the issue of accessibility um 100% of the units will be handicap accessible. You know the project will be designed you know for federal accessibility and so um you know every unit will be adaptable you know and we also have you know hearing and visual too. So we'll meet those requirements.
1:57:55

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

Great. Thank you. Okay. At this time we have that We have Councilwoman White and then circle back for our final um comment is Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.

—

Thank you so much, Madam Chair. A couple of my questions um have already been answered and one of them I'll scratch out the list, not for us to deal with today, but just for you, Director Cash, and the administration. I would like even if not for each one of these presentations for maybe a time where we sit down so that we as a council can better understand um in terms of how what analysis goes into the long-term benefit of choosing to do like a 50-year ground lease over some other alternative rent structure or some revenue participation models. Um, it would be really helpful to know how we got to the point of because we're we're we're presented with a 50-year ground lease for a dollar, but I don't know that this is the best way to go about this particular project because I haven't been presented any background as to what the options were that were considered and how you all derived at this particular structure. But at this moment, I'm just going to trust that you all did the due diligence. But I would like to understand that analysis um in the future. Um, and because it's affordable housing, it's something that I know that we need and I'm open to us trying different ways to get there. Um, so in terms of the reversion clause, this is more of a I guess not necessarily a question. So after the construction is completed, um, under what construction um, conditions can the property revert back to the city of Memphis other than delay in the vertical construction or is that something that's been considered? So that the um reversionary clause is specific to no action and no activity on the site. We just don't want it to sit. But no, once construction is completed, we've essentially turned over the um the property to the developer to maintain and manage. At that point, it uh
1:59:56

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

construction and um we can talk through timeline and just making sure. In other contracts, we do liquidated damages. If the um say it's supposed to be like a 18month project and it goes to they start construction but it goes to 36 months, we can determine at what point we want to trigger those liquidated damages to incentivize the developer to complete the project. Um but essentially it would become theirs. And then councilwoman I um happy to have the discussion about the analysis. I just did want to mention we are requesting the 50 year in this case because that is the minimum that um uh THDA the low-inccome tax credit will allow a developer to have site control. So if you do 30 then it would not meet the tax credit um criteria. I know you were talking about the amount as well but I just wanted to speak to the year.

—

That's a good Thank you. I didn't know that. So thank you. Um, and so in terms of the vertical construction, I understand and appreciate the reversion version clause as it pertains to no construction, but what about if there's like chronic nuisance maintenance issues um or not performing like as we anticipated? Is there any anticipation of any additional clauses to address those things or do you feel like they're adequately addressed in other places?

—

I would say I'm be frank with you and be honest, it's not addressed currently in the lease option. Um those are details that will be worked through with the lease and once again we would um try to come to some agreement with the developer and then present that to y'all and we'll figure out just speaking about these processes. They are um challenging because we have to figure out what we want as a city. They're looking at what they need. We're both working with our attorneys and then we come to y'all and so it feels like the deal is done, you know. So, it's kind of difficult to figure out that um good good inflection point, but that's a long-winded way of saying um in terms of others, like I said, we do liquidated damages. Um we don't want to be in the business of managing um affordable housing, the city directly. And so through that agreement, we would try to work through whatever kinds of ways we can um maybe assign and
2:01:58

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

replace. And of course, I you know, we want we want you for the long haul, but I can talk about other agreements. um we may assign and replace the um general partner or the I'm sorry the limited partner. We may try to assign and replace the property manager as we talked about. There are different pieces that you can put into the agreement to protect the city um and to make sure that there are protections for developers who have Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I understand there are guard rails. I'm trying to make sure that there are

—

Yeah, they're not understand. but they would be included in the full um lease draft which we would

—

That's what I wanted to know. Thank you. And then in terms of the 15year mark with the um lowincome housing tax credit, so that's 15 years. I don't see anything as of now in the lease option and so maybe it'll be in the lease agreement that addresses what happens to ownership after that period of time because the ground lease is for 50 years but the tax credit is only for 15. So, of course, when we know when some of these um funds that help go away, then we start seeing changes, is that going to be addressed in the lease or what's what's the

—

There will be um there will be portions of that in the lease. And so, um Saki mentioned the 15 years for THDA. He's got a 20-year pilot. So, you've got affordability for 20 years through the MHA pilot. And then with our with the federal funds that are in the project, um there may be some additional years. And so those would be elements and you're right, Councilwoman, they should be um explicitly in the lease option that there is maintained affordability at least during those terms. Um but those will be elements that we will ensure are in the full lease. Well, that was going to be my next question because in my mind if for that type of investment in terms of the pilot incentive in terms of the 50-year ground lease of the dollar that I would like and I don't know and this is not I do legal but this is not my field. I would like to know what can be put in the lease to make to ensure that the affordability
2:04:00

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

aspect continues because even though the 15-year tax credit will go away even though at some point the pilot will this still will be a structure.

—

Right.

—

Right. And so then what happens to it at that point in terms of affordability or is it the administration's position that hey we've at that point gotten our benefit out of it which could be so I don't know.

—

I just want to make sure that that's a consideration.

—

Yeah. And we typically will put affordable covenants on um the project, a project of this nature. And so it would it it will be stated in the lease, but there will also be uh a restrictive covenant in the governing those two floors and that site saying you can't sell within, you know, this amount of time and it must be for the benefit of people 80% or lower the air med income. Now the the response about what happens beyond that 20 years um that will be a good discussion. I think we want to see it maintained as affordable, but we know that the market may dictate that. Um they may be looking to um and I'm not sure. I know there's some other discussions around like pilot renewals, but they may be looking to renew their pilot. The um taxes here are pretty high and would push that rent up a little bit. Um it could be become it could become like in some areas of town what we call naturally occurring affordable housing. So it's no no longer under a restriction, but the rents are just such that they are catering to people who still meet that 80% or lower area media income. And so that would be something um to discuss. I don't think the city uh necessarily wants to say, "Hey, we want to sign a 99-year affordability covenant, but we may want to think through what that looks like at year 20, year 25, and just understanding what the implications may be um either way of that."

—

Okay. Okay. And I got two more questions and I'll be done. Um, Madam Chairwoman, so the other question is, and matter of fact, I'm not going to do it for this particular project either, but in the future, it would be helpful for us to be able to see the cities and not just the city, the county, the total financial exposure for the project over a 20 50
2:06:00

Show transcript (8 turns)

—

year period as it pertains to subsidies and abatements. because it's difficult to determine what our benefit is if we don't truly know what our investment is by way of these pilots tax credit. Does that make sense? And so to have that in one snapshot would be extremely helpful not just for this deal but for every deal.

—

Yeah.

—

Um and then the last one is

—

I can skip over that. Oh, just kind of the the gap potential the the potential risk kind of in funding in terms of a gap um if the final construction bids exceed the projections or tax credit equity pricing um declines. Is there any circumstances in which the city would be asked to contribute additional funds?

—

Um

—

I don't think we see that as as an issue at the moment. I mean obviously anything can happen in the future but um we've you know provided cushion in the construction costs and we provided cushions and you know everywhere else as far as financing and interest rates uh so that wouldn't happen and to add when we start construction um you know it becomes our responsibility to fill that gap you know so we're sort of on the hook financially to ensure that that doesn't happen um unless it's some unusual circumstance or you know you know an act of God or something like that. We don't see that as an issue. Uh we haven't had that experience you know in our experience in developing. Um and just to add about the affordability restriction you were talking about in addition to the city's restrictions there's a minimum requirement of a 30-year affordability period that's recorded on the site um from THDA. So that there is this additional layer uh 30 years. Okay.

—

Yeah. So, there's a 30-year requirement.

—

Thank you for that information. And I have one last question and I'm done. Um,
2:08:00

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

in terms of and you kind of touched on it, the operating and capital reserves um what like what operating and funding capital reserves um are being funded to ensure that the project remains financially stable in the next 2030 years.

—

Yeah. Give me a moment to pull it up. We have we actually have a requirement uh that there's an operating reserve as soon as we finish construction, but I'm going to give you the amount. One moment.

—

Where does that requirement?

—

Uh it's a requirement that's required by the lenders and investors. They require that you capitalize it in your development budget and it sits in a an account and you know we're responsible for uh putting up the first dollars and then there's a sort of backup. So I let me check really fast. I can tell you While he's looking for that, I would like to say to um Director Cash, it might be good for you to come back at the next council meeting and have the discussion because a lot of the things that we're talking about don't necessarily they aren't necessarily directed at this uh this developer because we've seen over the years some things happen in Memphis as it relates to, you know, developments and things like is um apartments and affordable housing units. So, some of this is coming from that and I think it would be good for for you um director Cash if you could come back and share with us those alternatives, options um those things that we can consider to make these projects safe more safe for us, you know, for the city of Memphis. So, um we'll dive into that and get your expertise when you come back. Were you able to find that, sir?

—

Yes. Yes, ma'am. Um, so there's a requirement that we have upwards between $250,000 and $300,000 that um at the completion of construction that's put in an account. Uh, and it's required by the lenders and investors. And in addition to that, the first $250,000 or 300 would
2:10:04

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

have to come out of our pocket. And then so you really have approximately 500 $600,000 in theory in reserves if I have to come out of pocket. And so that's how it works. So you you you have that reserve that's immediately there at completion of the project and the drawing down of those funds are obviously um you know approved by the lender to investor.

—

Thank you. That's all I have.

—

All right. And our final um final question is

—

Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.

—

All right. And one of them we may be able to discuss offline, but I'll just that would be um put it on the record. Security. I didn't hear anything about security. That is very important. We have elderly people back and forth and and of course the library. So I want to see what your plans is as far as securing them and making sure that they feel safe in and out. I need to hear about that. Then I want to talk about the resolution um I mean the lease um that is attached to this and I'm going to discuss that with you offline and

—

I'll tell you what section what sections those are and the other uh and I'll just talk with our legal and see how we can do this moving forward just just not with you but moving forward every developer or new project that's coming and someone else is going to manage it I think it needs to come before the council we need to see who are handling and interacting and engaging with our constituents and with our people because of what I'm hearing now and the discuss that's happening now. And right now I don't have any authority or say so over because it's somewhere somewhere else in these management groups. We have no dealings. We have no connection. And we we want a relationship. We want a partnership with our constituents so they can feel safe and if there's a problem, they're not getting beat up. And so that's the thing um that I wanted to say, but the other the resolution I'll talk offline. I mean the lease
2:12:05

Show transcript (10 turns)

—

agreement questions I'll talk offline. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

—

Thank you, Councilwoman. And those are some very good and insightful questions. We appreciate that. Then we're going to uh Is there anything else that needs to um be brought up? Colleagues, you have any other questions? Okay. Seeing none, we're going to move to item number two. And because we are an hour behind, brevity, as Councilman Smiley would say, is the word for today. These next two items, council members, if you would just consider that we're an hour behind. Uh the second one is an item uh Thank you, sir, for your presentation. All right. Um, item number two is a resolution to appropriate this sum of $500,000 funded by GEO bonds chargeable to the FY2026 capital improvement program CIP budget for the development of Liberty Park phase 2 CD01106 award 11426 District 4 Super District 8 sponsored by the administration. I have a

—

um it was moved by Councilman Ford and seconded by um Councilman Spinosa. Um Director Cash, if you would give us your address and Yeah. Um thank you, Councilwoman. Uh Ashley Cash, uh HCD director 170 North Bank. Could we hear the two items together? They're um

—

Sure. Um you want to do a second?

—

Oh, okay. Okay. I can go forward with the presentation.

—

Okay. Okay.

—

I'll just pause. Um Okay. So, the

—

we can read them together but vote on them separately. Correct.

—

Okay. Um so I'm going to read the next one. Uh item number three is a resolution to appropriate the sum of $300,000 funded by GO bonds chargeable to the FY2026 capital improvement program CIP budget for the fairgrounds redevelopment CD01107 award 11426 district 4 super District 8 sponsored by administration

—

we have is moved by Councilman Ford
2:14:07

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

seconded by Councilman Warren.

—

All right go right ahead.

—

Thank you. I appreciate that. Ashley Cash, um HCD director, 170 North Maine. And um these two items are both at the Liberty Park campus. We are asking for the council to appropriate uh CIP funds that were previously approved. Uh the first one is to appropriate 500,000 for um the this is for what's called monumental signage. That is going to be low profile but highly visible signage, visible to pedestrians and motorists. um really creating some brand identity at the space. Uh we are looking for the appropriation for this first um item would be the construction costs for digital monument sign improvements at Young Avenue and East Parkway in addition to some other wayfinding. The timeline will start with the bidding process assuming you know approval once approval is done that will start hopefully this March um with construction anticipated to be completed by before the end of the year. The cost are about $200,000 for the fabrication and instruct uh installation, $150,000 for wayfinding that is throughout the property and then site work utilities. We have to connect utilities to uh power the digital portion of the sign and then site work that may be your ornamental grasses and kind of putting stuff back when you finish. Um is that uh 20,000. So this image on the left is showing the monumental signage. Uh it's given a bit of an aerial and it's trying to give you a rendering in the very tiny top corner. Um but it it's it's going to look really nice. The um materials are construction I'm sorry, excuse me, concrete with some uh grasses and some pavers on the left hand side. Uh this is at um East Parkway and Young Avenue. And then this sign in the middle is going to be your wayfinding signage throughout your red uh dots throughout the campus. The monumental sign will be where that big star is on the campus. Um, these signs
2:16:09

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

have panels that you can uh move in and out. And so we'll start with the assets that we have presently and then as more assets come online, we're able to shift out um and shift in those directional uh panels. And then this slide shows um it should pop up for y'all in a second. Try again. I'm not sure. Um, do I press something? You want me to press the blue button? Mhm. Okay, I can do that. Okay. Um, so the

—

we all should have those slides anyway. You can go.

—

That's perfect. Um, going to the next slide. I was just I just added some aerials just so y'all can see. Oh, there we go. Uh exactly what what the site looks like now and what we're talking about. Um this is the existing award that we have CD 1106 the existing expenditures um different things name and rights resurfacing utilities some site security some project management and parking lot paving. And then um that is the first resolution. The second is very similar, but it's on uh the a different side of the site. And so this is at Central and Early Maxwell, I
2:18:10

Show transcript (17 turns)

—

believe. Um we are doing another monument sign, smaller in scale, a little bit smaller in price. The funding amount there is $300,000. We're asking y'all to appropriate the uh um uh CIP funds out of this CD 1107 number. 170,000 for the actual signage. Site work is 100,000. And then we've got a contingency in case we um you know need some additional foresight work or something like that of $30,000. The design for this portion of the project is um underway. Uh this is the site that we're talking about. So right now it's a grassy area. It also has the vinyl sign that says um welcome to Liberty Park. And we would place the monument signage on those two corners of the intersection there.

—

Okay.

—

Yes. two signs on opposite ends kind of like your main entrances of Liberty Park. And then um the last is just showing what we've spent on uh within that project number CD 1107.

—

Okay.

—

Happy to respond to any questions.

—

All right. We have one person in queue. That's all the time we'll have for that. You all can get with her afterwards. Um Council Warren,

—

just want to confirm this is revenue neutral being transferred from one project to another. Is that correct?

—

Yes. um is revenue neutral but it is not uh being transferred. We're just y'all approved the CIP budget.

—

We've already done it and we're just trying to appropriate

—

allocating CIP budget. We've already

—

Yes, sir.

—

Thank you, Madam Chair.

—

Just an appropriation. Okay.

—

All right, colleagues. Um we're going to take item number two first and um although we're going to do a voice vote. All those in favor say I. I.

—

Any opposed? Any opinion of chair that the eyes have it? That item passes item number three. All those in favor say I.

—

I.

—

Any opposed? It's an opinion that the ch the chair that the eyes have it. So move. Thank you for that. Colleagues, is there anything else that needs to come
2:20:11

Show transcript (10 turns)

—

before this committee?

—

Yes. She comes back. You come back. Can you give us an update with the hotel because we need to move forward with that.

—

All right.

—

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

—

Yeah. Okay. Great. I was about to say with the hotel, can we also have

—

It's been so long ago y'all forgot about it.

—

Well, no. I I actually that's why I was quiet because I I also wanted to know what other things could these CIP dollars be used for at this point because it's like we got that over there. But that's neither here nor there. Um, I would also like to know the total funding towards Liberty Park, um, in terms of what we have invested over these years, what we've paid out in terms of debt service and along with real deadlines. And I would also like for us to know who the point person of management over the project is and what the one in the just the regular industry. How long does it take to build put some brick on the ground and some paste and start building a hotel in comparison to what it is that we're getting now? And what we're going to do to make sure that that construction is moving forward and not costing us literally money by the day that we don't have.

—

Can you Put your mic back on. Send that as well. Your request. I absolutely will. Thank you.

—

All right. All right. Thank you. Nothing else further. This meeting committee is adjourned. Thank you.

—

Great point.
2:27:25

Show transcript (8 turns)

—

We are on schedule. Absolutely not. We going to do it in shorter than that. I'm going to take um I call the public works solid wastation general service committee to order. Miss King, you know what to do.

—

Councilman Ford.

—

Chairwoman SW Washington

—

present. Councilman Warren,

—

Chair Smiley,

—

thank you. I'm gonna take a quick point of personal privilege. Um, the young lady to my not immediate left to left, also known as the chairwoman of the Memphis City Council, celebrating a beautiful, remarkable birthday. Can we just take a brief moment to wish the chairwoman of the Memphis City Council a happy birthday?

—

Happy birthday.

—

It's my ultimate dream to spend my birthday with council. at least she looks good doing it. And and to the people of Memphis who's watching it, um I do think it's incredibly important to note that she is doing this on her birthday. That tells me that she is dedicated to the people of Memphis and trying to figure out how we can put each and every person who calls this community home in a much better position. So for those of you out there listening, please, if you see her, tell her happy birthday. Send a Facebook message. You see in the street tell her thank you for her service because this is indeed of service. All right. One item on the agenda today, a resolution to amend the fiscal year 2026 CIP budget to accept and appropriate 395 $95,000 $395,000 in federal grant funds from the US Department of Agriculture National Institute of Food and Agriculture Compost and Food Waste Reduction Agreement Award number 202570510 44324 to the Memphis Zool Zoologological Society for the implementation of Memphis Zoo Compost and Food Waste Reduction District 5 subition 9 administration request amendments. Moved by Warren, seconded by Chairwoman and Councilman Ford and Councilwoman Walker. Everybody up here and Miss Keith
2:29:27

Show transcript (16 turns)

—

director.

—

Is that on? Okay. Uh thank you, Chairman. Uh Philip Davis, waste director, 125 North Main. Um with me today is Lee Huffman Moyer. She's uh the uh uh with planning and development. This is a pass through grant. It's a federal grant that the zoo applied for um to do composting um at the zoo. Uh this action we're doing today is really just amending budget the budget so that it can pass through the solid waste division. And I'll let Lee um introduce herself and tell you a little bit more about the project.

—

Hello Lee.

—

Hello. Thank you chair. U my name is Lee Huffman Moyer, Division of Planning Development, Office of Sustainability and Resilience and 125 North Main. um

—

spoken like a vet.

—

I've been before commission a few times.

—

We hold on hold on

—

we we like to believe that we are a tad bit more structured.

—

Um yes. So as director Davis said this is a pass through grant that we applied for on behalf of the Memphis Zoo. Um, we applied for the grant because it aligns with the Memphis area climate action plan and objective 3.4 in Memphis 3.0 to expand uh composting facilities throughout the city and county. Um, the zoo will install a in vessel composter on their property to compost solid food waste, manure, and also yard trimmings from the zoo. Yes. All right. In vessel

—

over my head.

—

What is that?

—

Uh, it's a giant box that's going to grind up all of the organic matter and then heat it up and turn it into compost.

—

Okay.

—

Um,

—

Dr. Warren, it sounds like you're lame, but go ahead.

—

Yeah. Yeah. I think this is great what
2:31:28

Show transcript (11 turns)

—

we're doing. I mean, you know, I I How many of you guys are using compost fairy at your house? Y'all have the compost fairy coming by?

—

Okay. It's just me, okay? But I'm telling you, it's a great deal because all your food waste goes and they make compost out of it and then they bring you stuff for gardening back to your house. Okay? So, uh this is going to be they'll be able to bring back stuff and use what compost they're making on the zoo grounds for the flowers, for the plants, and uh it's just an ideal thing. Way to go. Thank you. So, this project helps what Dr. Warren's got talking about.

—

Yes, chair. Um, in addition, the zoo is thinking that they will have more compost than they would actually be able to use on grounds. Um, so they're partnering with the Dixon Gallery uh and gardens as well as Black Seed Urban Farms and Midtown Memphis.org or in the beginning to do a pilot to distribute compost free of charge to community gardens throughout Memphis.

—

Um,

—

that's a win-win.

—

Yeah.

—

Okay. Well, obviously have a support of uh Dr. Warren here and his Amen Choir, which is us. Um, all right. If you want to continue, you can, but it seems like the council can has already made their decision.

—

You want to talk to us a little longer?

—

That's the end of my presentation.

—

All right. All right. All those in favor?

—

I. Any opposed? It's opinion of the chair eyes have it. With that, this committee is ajourned. Um, items one and two will be held until the next council meeting.
2:36:05

Show transcript (19 turns)

—

the rest of the day. Um, Terry, will you please call the role? Councilman Spinosa,

—

Councilman Forest, Senior,

—

Councilwoman Walker,

—

present.

—

Councilwoman Sergeon Washington,

—

present. Councilman um Warren, Councilman Smiley, Councilwoman Cooper Sutton, and Chair White present. Thank you so much. First, we have Landmarks Commission appointments of Judith Johnson and Olivia Wall. Who do we have from the administration here?

—

Good morning. Please state your name and address for the record.

—

Good morning, Madam Chair. Brett Ragdale with the Division of Planning and Development, 125 North Main.

—

And I just thought about it. These are going to be uh motions. So, can I get a motion and a second?

—

Move that.

—

Second.

—

Um motion from council uh from chairwoman swarning Washington, second from council missposa. You may proceed.

—

Thank you, madam chair. Um as the uh secretary of the landmarks commission on behalf of mayor young, I'd like to introduce two appointments to the landmarks commission and that is Judith Johnson and Olivia Wall. I think they are going to come up and introduce themselves as well and they're available for any questions that you may have. I'll move to this side so they can

—

Olivia Wall 935 Bruce Street.

—

Uh Judith Johnson, 475 South Perkins, Apartment 6.

—

Okay. And did you have a presentation or anything that you wanted to say about him?

—

Uh I was going to let them speak to about anything they Yes.

—

Okay. Olivia Wall. Um I have been the uh Cooper Young uh landmarks chair for six years since 2020. Previous to that I helped uh write the guidelines for the Cooper Young Community Association Historic Overlight District and get it passed through. I've been working with the DEBD for a number of years on historic preservation.

—

Um I'm Judith Johnson. I started in historic preservation in about 2008. We
2:38:05

Show transcript (12 turns)

—

started doing the city survey uh and looked at like about 20,000 houses. Then I went over to housing and community development and I was the preservation analyst over there. Then I went back to Memphis Heritage as a director. We developed affordable housing and did historic survey. Uh and then um in 2003 I uh retired and went out on my own. So today I have a consulting firm, Judith Johnson Associates.

—

Thank you so much. It seems like you both have very unique backgrounds and great experience in this area. Thank you all for being willing to serve and share your talents with the city of Memphis. All those in favor say I.

—

I.

—

Any oppose say nay.

—

The eyes have it. This will go down with a favorable recommendation. Thank you so much.

—

Thank you.

—

Thank you.

—

Thank you for agreeing to serve. We appreciate you guys.

—

Our pleasure. Second, we have a discussion of ordinance 5969 regarding labor disputes on council districts requested by personnel committee. Attorney, you are recognized.

—

Can I get a motion?

—

Second.

—

Motion from Councilman Spinosa, second from Dr. Warren. You may proceed. Are we ready? All right. earlier earlier this year. Earlier this year, um, at the request of several council members, uh, I was asked to try to provide a revised impass procedure. Um, and I provided a skeleton ordinance
2:40:06

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

to begin with to get the process started. And then I think last meeting 19th uh I submitted a draft of a the full uh provisions. uh a after that I think we had a meeting on the 27th and the associations had contacted a lot of you and I think they also wrote a letter to the chairman at our request to giving comments to that document and what I have done is looked at that document and attempted to address many of the concerns that they had in the document and I want to go over what I'm proposing now. But before I do that, I think it's probably helpful and you know, last time we did not have a lot of time to address this, but I think it's helpful for us to kind of see where we are. I mean, how we got here. Um, this entire impass process began in 1978 with referendum ordinance 2766. We have extra. Okay. Um and in that uh referendum ordinance that followed some strikes by city employees and the referendum ordinance was adopted to um prohibit strikes. But it also added a provision that the council would by ordinance set
2:42:09

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

up procedures for arbitration of economic issues of municipal labor disputes or by the council or by a committee of the council and establish rules and procedure. Therefore, and then it provides that not provided that neither the council nor any committee shall engage in arbitration of economic disputes of municipal labor disputes unless and until there has occurred an impass on a total economic package for which impass remains deadlock for seven consecutive days which basically limits your authority in impass to arbitration of economic items. First of all, and secondly, you cannot get engaged until there is a deadlock between the administration and the associations. You can't go in and start doing hearings before that happens. So as a result of that ordinance there was the first iteration of impass ordinance was on March on April 3rd 1979 which was 2850 and that ordinance it was ver fair fairly brief but it basically allowed um impass of economic items only and It created a process where three member impass committees were chosen by lot meaning we had a random selection of impass committees of of council members and that was done in various ways. It ultimately revolved around us having u it's almost like the lottery. You have the balls and you have numbers in there. You pick them out and that's how you were randomly selected.
2:44:10

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

That process was changed on March 27, 1994 in ordinance 4243. And that ordinance expanded on a lot of what we have today. Uh again the selection by lot was was used uh it was limited to economic items only and um the committees were allowed to create their own procedures. Um it went through a lengthy process of a recommendation being made to the council and unless the council vetoed the recommendation that recommendation would stand and then it had language in it that um the council would take what ever action it deemed necessary in the budget uh to make sure that item was included. All right. So then we rolled down to 2017 and 5369 is the ordinance. That ordinance again made a few dra drastic not drastic but um substantial changes. one it was no longer well technically it as far as you were concerned it was limited to economic items. It provided for a process of how you selected the members and it gave the associations the ability to select a council member. It gave the administration the ability to select a council member and then it allowed the two council members that were selected to create a third member who would be the chair. Again, that committee had the ability to uh establish its own rules of procedure. Uh this ordinance went through a process
2:46:10

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

where you made recommendations and then the council would take the matter up at second reading and decide uh how they would either accept the recommendation or reject it or make whatever decision. And then whatever decision they made, if they favored the administration, obviously no change in the budget ordinance was necessary because the budget already included their proposal. If you accepted the association's proposal, then you would add their proposal to the budget ordinance for consideration on third reading. And at third reading, the council had the discretion under the charter to determine whether it would accept h how it would fund in whole or in part any recommendation that was in the budget as it does with every other recommendation by the administration. So that's kind of where we are. So as it as it evolved, what ended up happening as I I explained the last meeting, u it seems like no matter what process we come up with, there are always nuances that people seize on and how they want to administer the. So what ended up happening is now the uh three member panel generally would hear the associations on it. They would each be given 30 minutes to side and it would make a recommendation to the council. And what ended up happening is universally the council would accept the recommendation without discussion. Um and then it would just kick the can down the road to third reading and then we would evaluate what we would fund, what we wouldn't fund, how much we would do. For example, in this past session, I believe um the associations may have prevailed on all item, all impasses, but
2:48:15

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

the council did not accept the administration 0% raise and did not accept a lot of the recommendations and instead determined that a 3% raise for all employees across the board was the most expedient thing for the the city and its citizens. So it seemed that what was happening is that the impass committee process was was really becoming irrelevant. It all came down to what you did as far as funding the budget. Um, a lot of the difficulty that staff has encountered and what we've seen is that once we get the recommendations, we don't they're not aligned with the process that you are looking at in terms of budget. Um, and as you know, you go through a budget process where you have budget hearings where all of the divisions come in and present their budget. And it starts with this book right here. And this is the book that the mayor presents. Um, and what he presents in that budget book are a couple of things. He presents uh what's a revenue summary which he outlines the projected revenues that he anticipates for the ensuing fiscal year. And that's done at a high level. Then you get a legal level which details all the various categories of those items. And then you receive in that budget a legal line item or a summary for each division. For example, if you take police division, you get a a summary of expected revenues which are irrelevant. But you also get a summary of the personnel expenses, but you also receive
2:50:16

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

what's known as a legal line item budget of all those personnel expenses. And it goes down a litany of those. What I'd like to do is just u give you a copy of a document. If somebody could just pass this while he's passing that out. Um, so what I have here is a copy of the FY26 proposed operating budget. And on page one of 203, it has a revenue summary which talks about how many local taxes, state taxes, license permits, and it gives total revenues of 823,998. And then if you if we go to If you go to, for example, police services division, they have 12 million in revenue. But then if you go to the legal line
2:52:17

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

item for personnel expenses, you'll have a sheet that looks like this. and it gives you detail on every major line item of personnel expense for that division. So what what happens is we get a recommendation from a committee but it's not aligned with what we're looking at in terms of the budget. So what what I did uh was try to come up with a process which will drive all parties to be on the same page. Um now after this budget is considered by you, you then approve a budget ordinance and then you get a budget book and that budget book has the same format, same process. Now we have implemented a process where you now also receive quarterly updates on how we are progressing through the um fiscal year. And the last one we had was last week I mean last meeting the Monday before last meeting and you received a quarterly report. That quarterly report tells you based on the budget, the the projected budget, the adopted budget, how we're doing, where we're headed, what you can anticipate might be the the forecast for the upcoming fiscal year. Um, this in my opinion is a very informative and important document and it's an important process. I noticed I I came to it. I usually don't get involved
2:54:18

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

in the budget process, but I came to that meeting and I noticed I mean, frankly, I mean, I'm not chastising anybody, but only two council members were there. I did notice that none of the associations attended, and I think it is very informative for all involved that that's interested in the budget to keep up with this. So, that's kind of where we are. Um, so what this ordinance does is attempt to create a process that's initiated by the administration. And right now, the prior three ordinances did not did not ever require the administration and the associations to even have discussions. That's not our role. We can't make them have discussions. They can have them as they see fit. They can have them 365 days a year. They can talk about whatever they want to talk about, but that was not an economic issue and therefore we never addressed it. So, this document changes that paradigm slightly. and and it starts out by requiring it's initiated under the pre-impass provision. Um, if you go
2:56:19

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

Okay. So what this document does first of all it requires the administration to present their total their tenative total economic package and originally we had a arbitrary date of March 15 and that was intended to get to Ball Road and the document that I gave you was a sheet that had the revenue schedule and the expenditure schedule. And it's anticipated that that kind of documentation would be what would be used by the administration to start the process roll. And that the contents of that document is is described in section 4.2 And it says that to facilitate an expedite an expedited resolution of any dispute or impass over direct economic items for the ensuing fiscal year, the city shall present to all general fund employee bargaining units by March 24th. I changed it from 15 to the 24th of any year. It's tentative general fund revenue forecast which is the sheet I gave you which and u with legal level detail by major categories and projected unrestricted fund balances at the beginning of the ensuing fiscal year. It's tentative proposal for each general fund bargaining unit city division with legal level detail for each major general fund expense category and that's personal and for the current year the projected unrestricted general fund balances as of the end of the year. So what this does is the city comes in and says this is what we expect to receive in revenue. This is what we're projecting to spend
2:58:22

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

for personnel expenses for each bargaining unit. And this is what we anticipate the result of this will do to our unassigned fund balance. All right. So that document is presented to each bargaining unit. Each bargaining unit takes that document and responds. We think you're short on revenue here. We think you're short on revenue there. We think you we want more personnel expenses and wages that will impact overtime that will impact X Y and Z and we have our own line items that we are presenting. So then those two documents stand as the starting tentative position of both parties. They should discuss that we can't mandate it. Now, technically, we can't mandate that the mayor even give them that document, but I submit to you that under the the charter where we are authorized to set up an arbitration procedure as part of our budget process, the charter requires the mayor to submit his budget to you. So as part of that, I mean technically you can require him to submit this to you and you give it to the associations, but I think we have the authority despite his independent uh duty to manage workforce to require him to give it to them to start the process. They don't get that now. They complained in the letter they gave me said, "Well, we're at a disadvantage because we don't get Okay. So, we're requiring that they be given that and that that's going to, in my opinion, get us on the right path of dealing with economic items. Um
3:00:23

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

though in the prior ordinance there was a provision added that um dealt with non-economic items and I'll deal with that in a minute. Now that's dealing with general fund. Now we understand that there are enterprise funds and a lot of u city employees are in those enterprise funds. They operate under different revenue projections and different fund balances and they have personnel expenses. So they they are going to be given a different sheet that's going to deal with that. For example, solid waste has a lot of passing employees and so they will the city will say this is what we project our revenue stream will be which is largely from citizens paying the $45 a month and here's what we project our personnel expenses to be. They get to respond to that. They come in with a document. So the enterprise funds are on the same paradigm. So there's not much significant change except that now we're dealing with numbers. We're not just dealing with rhetoric, politics, whatever. We're dealing with numbers. They have a proposal. Associations have a proposal. They try to come together and see if they can agree. If they cannot agree, then within a short period of time after the mayor presents his budget, they then can invoke impass and start the process. So the difference between so one of the things that the association's um comment was that they said why don't we just do away with impass committees
3:02:24

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

since they seem to be a burden and and somewhat irrelevant. Um my response to that is that well I I told him I was intrigued by that because what it would do it would free up a lot of time in the schedule to allow the administration and the associations to reach an agreement or a memorandum of understanding. But you know the purpose is not to favor anybody. We don't favor the administration. Obviously, we didn't in the last budget session because we ended up saying 3%. He said zero. We didn't favor labor. They said they wanted more money. We gave them 3%. So, the the point is we want them to come together. We want them to reach an accommodation where we don't have impacts, where we just we just do what we do at budget time and decide what we're going to fund, what we're not going to. So that's what this process does. Now, it's wasteful, I think, for you guys to be in the middle of dealing with the mechanics and numbers and back and forth of the administration and the association. So, I propose that we use an impartial arbitration panel. And originally, we talked about using the federal mediation service. We selected that because that's what's now in the present ordinance for non-economic item resolution and I anticipated that everybody would be familiar with them. Everybody would be familiar with their cost. There is mechanisms for that cost to be assessed to either party or
3:04:26

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

divided equally in the present ones. And so it seemed like that would be an easy step to get to an impartial panel. My thinking was is that we would have the both parties select labor and I mean labor collectively would select an arbitrator. management would select one and the council would select one, you know, from someone who has budget experience, municipal budget experience, and that that panel would hear all cases. They would all be dealt with separately the way they are now. They wouldn't be roving multiple committees, but only one for and it seemed to be more efficient. they would be more locked in and have knowledge about what's going on and they could they could hear them all. So in the reiteration of this ordinance we took out all these cumbersome dates 10 days after business days after this 10 days business days after that. So essentially where we end up coming to and I I'll walk through the timing in a minute is that we free up about 45 days after impass and after the committee the panel is selected for the panel to hear all the cases. We have seven associations. One of the associations asked me has uh employees in multiple divisions and they they have presently aou which is called ask me main those are the uh member uh employees who are general fund
3:06:29

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

employees and then you have a separate uhou dealing with public works the solid waste of business. So it seems like you have seven associations, you have a potential of nine separate impass committee hearings and that within a 40-day period, giving each side 30 minutes each, a panel can efficiently go through that and get to the end of the day and make a recommendation to you. We cut out the second meeting date as being the trigger for the recommendation to be made. We just provide that is to be made within four business days before third reading of the ordinance and and then we we cut out having any hearings on second reading. And under the present ordinance, there is a pro proviso that we can a special meeting. One of the comments that the association said that well we've never used that before and there's a reason for it. Uh that probably was was inserted because after second reading in third reading there is usually 14 days between meetings. You cannot have a special meeting under our charter unless you give 14 days priority notice. So after we go through second reading and hear all those things, there's not enough time to have a separate meeting before third reading. So what this ordinance will do now is once we know that the panel is selected and they're going into an impass procedure, we can then give 14 days notice, more than 14 days notice that we will have a meeting
3:08:31

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

the day before third reading where they can come in and address the impass committee's recommendations. We can also use that day to deal with budget wrap up where we're not compounding that with our normal committee schedule. As you know, we go over all the time on everything. So, to me, it seems like that's going to free up that and have us narrowly focus the day before on hearing from the associations. Each one of them will, I believe, get 15 minutes. They do that now. And they can make their case about why the recommendation is good or bad or whatever they want to say. The next day we go into budget. We've done wrap up. We've heard the associations close proximity to when you will be deciding the budget. You make the budget decision. Uh pursuant to the charter, the section 514 says the council shall have full discretion to approve or amend all budgets prior to the adoption of a tax rate for the ensure ensuing year including funding if any for the total economic package for any or all of city employee bargaining units and such amounts that the council shall determine is in the best interest of the city. Council's decision on recommendation of arbitration panel shall be final and effective only to the extent funded by the council in a finally adopted budget for the ensuing fiscal year. The city administration shall modify the budget appropriation ordinance for the ensuing fiscal year to include all total economic items to accept so approved or amended by the council and the city controller shall not under any circumstances make any dispersements not specifically provided for in the budget. This provision, you wonder where all those words came from? straight from the chart.
3:10:33

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

Okay. So, this ordinance does not deal with the non-economic provision that's in the present or what that provision was added. It basically says that the council has no authority to direct the parties how to resolve non-economic items. that is totally outside of the scope of the or of the charter provision that I read to you earlier and our you know this ordinance and the position and recommendation that I'm making to you is that your lane is economics the administration and the association's lane is non-economics the people behind you they are veterans they negotiate all the time. They will negotiate on where they go to lunch. They will negotiate on everything. Just get across the table and negotiate. That's what they do. Okay? They don't need our help. That's what the administration is supposed to. They can talk as many times as they want, as often as they want. Now, I understand some of their issue and I sympathize with them is they say, "Well, administration won't talk to us. They won't give us information. They won't play right." So, they want you to help them. That's their job. Their job is to get what they need for their membership. Your job is to adopt the budget and to drive this process to that end. Now um when we did um 5639 in 2017, the associations opposed that document as they opposed this document.
3:12:35

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

And we did I did a a document at that time which is called legal analysis of impass ordinance and I went through the history everything I've done for you today and I went through the major issues that they raised as they did with this and I went back and looked at it again and I looked at it again before we before I drafted what you have and interestingly A lot of the comments that are being made about this ordinance were made about the problem. Um, okay. The All right. In that prior to the adoption of the prior ordinance, the association's position was charter amendment referendum clearly indicates a desire of voters for negotiation of agreements in good faith. And it says Councilman Conrad's proposal eliminates the negotiation. Our response at that time was the union's position is a false fact and a misconception promoted by the unions to their membership. Proposed Ordinance 5369 does not address the present rights of the administration and the employees to discuss, negotiate or exchange total economic packages. Whatever rights they have, they still have. Same is true here today. Only difference is we have required the
3:14:36

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

administration to start the process by giving detailed economic information about their proposal. The union's position was the mayor does not have to confer with the employee organizations on the proposal. Again, if he does or he doesn't, this doesn't change them. This is a procedural process for how we get to a budget resolution considering the association's proposal. Association position uh section E of the proposed ordinance provides it does not require the city and its employees to negotiate or reach any understanding regarding administrative or non-economic issues. This is in contrary to the intent of the charter. I read you the chart. It said nothing about none. The gist of of all of this is that what was being proposed is purely procedural, not substantive, not favoring either party. It is fairly mechanical as it has to be in order to accommodate uh giving everybody the option to present their positions. It allows for full and free exchange of economic data between the parties. It it aligns the documentation with the documentation that you will receive in this book and that you will receive and updates. And so you're looking at apples and apples and talking about facts and figures and whatever. Now,
3:16:37

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

you know, I mean, I guess we get caught up in the weed sometimes. And you can put all the words on paper that you that you want. It doesn't matter. It don't matter. What matters is and you know, I had a meeting with as membership in this room. Uh all of them, there was a bunch of and we talked about this whole thing and what it comes down to is and what I told them I said you can put all the words on paper, but what it means is that you got to go face to face with management, make your case, and If you have merit in your position, sell it. Don't be dragging us into it. We aren't the crutch that you can use to leverage. And I said, you can go and talk to management all the time. You can say we would like to have monthly meet. You can say we could do a lot of things, but that's what you have to do. And and I said we don't need to have you know, collateral discussions about Martin Luther King and having Al Sharpton come down here and embarrass the mayor and all that kind of stuff. I mean, just go man to man, face to face. This is what we want. and he can tell you and he will. We may reach a deal that may not be that one, but here's what I'm willing to do.
3:18:40

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

That's how you get there. And it doesn't matter what's on this document right here. Okay? And then, you know, no names, no names discussed. What the hell we need this for when somebody can just go up to seven and say, "I want 5%. I don't care what they say. I want 5%. That didn't come happen through no arbitration process. That just happens, right? I mean, I'm not begrudging anybody for doing that. If you can get that done, get that done. If that's the case, don't need us. So, I mean, that's a lot to say. Um, this is fairly mechanical. Uh, I think I've tried to work through it and as many of you know, the arena that I deal in is I go to court, I prepare, I present, and a judge looks at me and says, "You win or you lose." That's what this does. You prepare, you go before a panel, you present your case, they present their case, somebody wins, somebody loses. It comes to us and even if somebody wins or somebody loses, if we ain't got the money, guess what? Nobody wins. So, um I mean, this is not a bilateral thing. The associations have competent, experienced negotiators and lawyers. Administration has competent, experienced negotiators. You are elected part time. Third party in this exercise that gets lost are the constituents that you
3:20:41

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

represent. And I think what your goal is is to try to reach a budget ordinance that one doesn't raise taxes, doesn't reduce workforce, doesn't lower salaries, doesn't affect our fund balance in the future to go forward. That's what I hear from you. That that's what you want to do. this document and the document I gave you streamlines this whole process to everybody's looking at those numbers and when you start debating whether you want to give a raise to everybody or not you can go where are we going to get it and the numbers will be sitting right in front and it won't just be rhetoric and politics now if that's what you want you don't I've done my job I've made a recommendation that I work and I recommend that y'all approve it. Um, one of the comments that the association made is that um, the future council members, association representatives and administrations will have to live with this document that you adopt. We always can change things. we can we can modify as as we see gaps in the process and and you know I want to turn that comment around. Okay. As I said, there are many representatives behind me that have been doing this far, many more years than you guys have been in Tennessee with term limits. You roll in here, it's a steep learning curve. They are miles ahead of you. Okay? They want to keep that
3:22:42

Show transcript (12 turns)

—

advantage for them. This is your turf. This ain't their turf. Okay? So what we're trying to do is create a paradigm that will help institutionalize a mechanical neutral process that new council members won't have to be subjected to political pressure.

—

Thank you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. Were you done? Attorney wait. Yes.

—

Okay. I wanted to um we've been joined by Councilman Canali, Councilman um Carlile, and Councilwoman Logan. Um, we have one member in the Cuba. Before we got to Councilman Smiley, I did have one quick question. Well, two actually.

—

I know you said that one of the questions was why don't we just do away with the impass committees alto together. Is that something that can't be done pursuant to what we're required to provide in terms of this process?

—

Yeah, the charter requires that you have an arbitration procedure.

—

Yeah, I guess Please, no comments from the audience. No outburst. Thank you.

—

Well, hold on. Hold on one second. Councilman Carla.

—

So, the the charter requires that you have an arbitration procedure. It says shall adopt an arbitration procedure.

—

And then one more question. Is there a fiscal note to doing the arbitration or have we looked into what that will be in in addition to what we already pay?

—

That's a good question.

—

For for going through the negotiation period.

—

That's a good question. Um the one thing that the associations raised was the cost of using the federal mediator service. So I expanded that uh pool to be those entities or Tennessee Supreme
3:24:44

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

Court rule 35A neutrals uh who who are locally available but there would be a cost associated with paying that three member panel to hear all these uh committees. Uh that's you know I don't know if that's a deal breaker or not but that's something that would have to be done. I think it's well worth it because it spares the time and expense that you incur away from budget hearings that are going on at the same time.

—

Is there any way for um maybe legal in conjunction with finance to give us maybe what that cost would potentially look like on a year-to-year basis for the city?

—

Yeah, I think we would probably have to build that into somebody's budget. Okay, Councilman Smiley, you're recognized.

—

Thank you. Um, I think Councilwoman White uh asked one of my questions, but I do want to dive in a little deeper. So, you know, let's let's assume that the charter requires impass. And Impass is essentially the council some point making the decision about who side to choose. What is stopping us to I don't know say this a substitute ordinance and and deal with the same thing and

—

I think the easiest way for me to to get to where I'm trying to go is no matter what we put put in these documents dealing with impaths ultimately the council has to make a decision

—

why why can't we just get rid of all of the middle stuff since we have to make a decision and let's say they come to they disagree. They come to the council one time and there's one decision being made. I don't I'm trying to figure out if that's possible. I don't

—

No, no, no, no. That was um one of the suggestions made by the associations. The problem with that is
3:26:45

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

you will not be able you will you are going to get so many different proposals and they won't be uniform and aligned with your budget process and you will not have had this them vetted. That's the difference. Now remember I I want to point uh piggyback on your question on one of your questions. There are two decisions that have to be made. One of them when you're acting to to address one proposal or another, you're acting almost like a court. And you aren't acting in the capacity of a council at that point. You're acting as a court to decide, well, we think there's merits in this proposal and there's merits in that proposal. But at the end of the day, no matter which one you choose, once you consider the full budget and as we often have done, we may not fund either one of them. Okay? So that those are the two distinctions and that's one of the thing people says this is a shell game. Well, unfortunately, I'm sorry, but the council can't yield this budget authority. It you know that is vested in you. So I hope I answered your question.

—

Okay. So I get I don't know how to be I was trying to figure out how not be as

—

direct. Let me say what I said.

—

Okay.

—

In response. I think I wrote the association a letter and I addressed that issue. in the world and and essentially what I said is I I don't think we can dispense with it entirely. I mean maybe at the end of the day we can still have that meeting before
3:28:46

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

the meeting and make a decision but it still has to be done. Okay.

—

Yeah. So I think I think we I think I'm I'm with you on that. Let's say let's assume that that impass has to be done because of the city charter amendment. Let's say that happens. All right. Then once we assume that we still get back to the place where council ultimately has to make the decision. And if I can be, you know, as transparent, let's let's take the the land use control board in into play. They make a recommendation and then ultimately it comes back to the council. Council still has to make a decision. And you know, you know, as well as I know, we may or may not pay heed, take heed to what's happened on the lane control board. I don't necessarily know if that fixes the the issue we have. The issue that some of the council members have is there's there's so many different things. We get lobbyed by the administration. We get lobbyed by the unions or the associations, but ultimately it still comes back to the council. I'm not sure we need the the committee meetings. Not sure if we need the commit messes, not sure if we need the arbitrator. That that's one position. That's one thought I have. I still don't know where I land on this. And then um also um arbitration. Well, not arbitration. Impass is currently currently already started. Correct. Or no.

—

So there's been no negotiations between the administration and the the uh the bargaining units. Because one of the things I also thought about since we're so late in the game, um what's to stop this body from saying, let's say we assume that this ordinance would put the city city as a whole in a much better position because that kind of levels the playing ground between the bargaining units and the u the city administration. What's to stop us from saying going to the very last page of this and saying where it says become effective as otherwise provided by law? Let's stop from saying becomes effect of the next fiscal year to give um you know the the
3:30:49

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

city time to prepare the administration time prepare for for entirely different process.

—

Um well first of all the process the substance of what goes on is not going to change.

—

Okay. they gonna still I mean and and to get to your point when you kick the can down the road to the last time you just open yourself up to all the political pressure that comes and that's that's where it's going to be and you're not going to have any you're going to be sorting through I mean there I mean some of these associations they don't know budget they don't talk budget they'll present you something that's totally different from someone else and you be you juggling seven, but now they'll have to they'll have to come forward with a unified thing and you're going to have seven or eight seats and you can kind of see what the impact is, total them up and go forward from there. But that's kind of, you know, what my thinking is. I mean, I'm not clairvoyant about how it's going to work, but I just think but the other problem kicking the can down the road.

—

So, what do you mean by kicking the can down the road? Are you talking about changing the effective date? No, I'm talking about eliminating the the committees and just just channeling all the energy to that last meeting is going to be a big big problem. Okay. And let me point out one other thing that you avoid. We don't want to have impass. You want to force these parties to come to agreement. Right now there's no incentive for anybody to agree with anything. They just come to you and beat on your chest and say go my way. So then here's my last question. You know, I like the good a good argument. You're making a pretty good one now. Okay. You saying if the um if a problem with um my idea is a proposal, potential proposal would be that they're everybody's going to lobby us. What stop? Nothing about this current
3:32:50

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

ordinance or the the the existing ordinance and the amendment stops them because it's still I don't care what the arbitrator says. I don't care what anybody says. We still have to make a decision. So when they know whether you're the administration, if you're a bargaining, when you know that the council still makes a decision, you still going to go to the council because the council has the ultimate say. So they're going to lobby us.

—

Let me let me let me let me just get real with that one.

—

I'm gonna get real with that one. Okay. So, so let's take the last session and and for example, they went through a whole process and they came in and they all had recommendations that labor was king and all that kind of thing and then y'all ended up doing 3%. And you explained why. Okay. I remember Councilwoman Logan, you talking about you had some concern about going into the rainy day fund and that it would impact us. Okay. So, they didn't know that. All the associations thought they won at second reading and they were dog cussing you because you you flipped the script on, but you didn't really because you still have the ultimate decision. What this does is put facts and figures on the table. So, when you say we are only going to give 3%. You they see it. They they can see why. They don't have to be told by their association that y'all just dogged them, you know.

—

Good point. So, is there a way that we can keep I don't know what provision what provision is what talks about the mayor talking about the forecast what revenue we're going to bring in. Is there a way that we can still require that and skip the middle stuff? cuz I still think the middle stuff and in lack of a better term, I I almost think it's a waste of time because at the end of the day, the council still has to has to decide. But I do believe that we're to the extent that we can require the mayor to provide accurate information to the extent we can require
3:34:52

Show transcript (18 turns)

—

the bargaining units to be forthcoming in their dealings with the administration. Um, I think there's benefit to that. But, you know, I've been on a million committees and I can One point I was on the council. Uh the council despised being on the committee so much. We took out this little gold raffle thing and says you're the winner. But we was like we're not winning.

—

You're the loser.

—

We're lo.

—

Yes. So I

—

No. No. I I get it.

—

Can we do that?

—

I mean listen I think if you stay with the same process with the council members being the committee

—

get rid of the committee. Just get

—

you you are that's a problem. There may be some value, however, though, with some arbitrators that have judicial experience being able to hear them out and giving you a specific recommendation. Now, there may be some value to that. Maybe it isn't. I mean, but if you're going to have a process, I had to come up with a process that I thought was fair and impartial and allowed people to do what I do every day. Go make your case and then get a recommendation.

—

And then my then my last point, then I'll be done. I know I have

—

I'm I'm glad you're doing this. This is really,

—

you know, I like I enjoy this. Um, so here here's my last point and I'm going to go back to I want to beat up on land use control board but sorry land use control board I still love you. So when land use control board makes recommendations

—

I love these analogies by the way with land use

—

I'm trying to be nice about it. Um I don't know any way to to get to it without

—

I'm I'm waiting.

—

Even when the land use control board makes a recommendation or um office of planning and development they make a recommendation. We know it doesn't matter what they say in that piece of paper and they spend a lot of time going through it. A lot of time they they they do they do the planning meetings. They meet with the developers talk about why this is consistent with Memphis 3.0. But then it comes to the council. We don't even look at the paperwork.

—

Okay. I I hear you counsel.

—

But let me tell you, let me say something about that.
3:36:53

Show transcript (8 turns)

—

What you do get though,

—

it's the truth.

—

You get

—

It's true.

—

You get a truth.

—

You get a vetted report.

—

Now, that may not be of value to you, but it may be a value to some other people and they've gone through a process and they've come back to you with a recommendation. You can throw it in the trash can, but at least you got that document. If you don't have that document, just think if you had seven different land use control board reports that aren't consistent, that's what you going to have. So you think the arbitrator or an arbitrator who has some type of judicial experience or mediation experience um providing a report would be the council would be more inclined to to to take heed to what the arbitrator says.

—

I mean I think they it would it it could inform them. I mean maybe they have their own ideas but you know one of the things in um on 511 it required I mean typically let's talk about let's say if you have Aaron judge in arbitration he comes in and says I want 20 million team says we give You have one arbitrator and he decides that he's going to pick one or the other. That's the end of this thing is the same way. You pick one or the other, but then you got to have a report that includes a minimum a total economic package of one of the parties. So, you pick one, a sidebyside comparison of the one you picked with the one you didn't pick. And remember I gave you a charter that has all that detail and any comments by any member who desented. So if you got three panel you have a
3:38:54

Show transcript (9 turns)

—

descending member they tell you why. So you get that document and you are you know

—

absolutely but then you end up you end up not having to study and do your own calculations. You you start you start with a point that you can

—

so the arbitrator creates here's the ruling and then here's dictive by the desending member of why they disagreed and we we have that presented along with some type of document to say here's what the proposal is by the administration his proposal is by the bargaining union and you know here's how to potentially impact

—

and and the reason I mean this is just my to a point where it can be just finished and presented to you and use it for whatever you need. But if we're going to have to have an arbitration procedure, it can't be ashamed. We just got to go through some process.

—

And who's paying for the arbitration?

—

That's the question that

—

Okay. Well, I'm out. I'm out the queue for now. Thank you for having this dialogue with me. I was trying to figure out how this improves our current process. I do see benefit in some of it. I do believe that the the middle part is is a lot because it still comes back to the council to make the decision and you I guess we hope as a as a community that people, you know, take the information they have um whether it's from take the non partial none partial information we have and make good decisions on behalf of the people of Memphis. Well, one point to your I mean, and I had I mean I get ideas from you guys. I don't

—

y'all give me food for thought I try to but even if you went away from the middle then you still have to force I think the parties to present

—

Oh, I love that.
3:40:55

Show transcript (15 turns)

—

Competing things even to you at the end of the ring.

—

I love that part.

—

I think they didn't have a problem with it either. I think they welcomed it because they ain't getting it.

—

Oh, I love that part. I think I think that pushes people to SA but also requires both sides to be forthcoming and where they are. I just I just go back and forth about the the need for the part as it relates to the committee or the arbitration just because it still gets back to the council and if we know we got to make the ultimate decision if we already have the information in front of us. Is there a way that we could have someone create without the arbitration piece, have someone create this this documentation, a recommendation without having just once they get the information, make a recommendation to this body because we still got to make the decision and the hearing I think the hearing is just

—

okay

—

not needed. So you could you could refer it to single right now if you have administrative procedure dealing with pensions OJI you have a single administrative law you could have them present them they could just

—

without the argument just present the documents and they say here's my information

—

on the brief

—

brief they submit a recommendation without going through the

—

I think I like

—

I think I actually like that but I need to think through it because everything we do has consequences whether we intend them to be and then there's unintended consequences like you should have thought of that here's how it negatively impacts things

—

in the in the arguments that we hear from the association that they want to be heard they want to talk okay but they still get to do that before third

—

okay I need to see it and think

—

thank you Councilman Carlau, you're recognized.

—

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Attorney Wade. Um, most of the comments been said, so I won't repeat them. I
3:42:55

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

will make the point I I guess just more anecdotally, that yeah, frequently the timeline doesn't feel like it's followed, period. You know, it's just kind of like hodge podge. So, I mean, I think kind of resetting the stage and and kind of recommitting to a timeline that works in a clear set of rules going forward. You you mentioned term limits. I think that that's critically important. And I was actually reading through theUS or sitting here and just seeing the footnotes from 2016 just re reaffirming things and that ultimately like some of this stuff has to change and and to sit here and like shake heads and not recognize that like it's not an efficient to sit here and claim that we have an efficient system is laughable. like and so the I've heard that claim. I've heard that claim.

—

Well, hold on, please. No comments from the audience. Thank you.

—

Thanks. Thank you, Madam Chair. Appreciate that. The the the the system isn't efficient. The system is always a workaround. And ultimately we do it comes to this I mean I'm fine to come up here if you don't mind. I I'll just ask you a direct question like we've talked about this and so we'll just get it on the record. Like you could just say the simplest thing to do is just do a compensation study like we talked to like many businesses and just apply that comp study and say this is it like this is best practice. Like that is a way to do it and and and you could just agree to disagree but you couldn't say it's a bad way. It is a way and it's done all over the country. How much time or no? So cost was a big issue. Have we tracked the amount of time or I guess the amount of cost in legal and I guess in negotiation spend that like over a fiveyear period or on an annual basis for the city that we spend in order to do like to go through this process. And the followup
3:44:55

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

the second part of that question is is the human capital the opportunity cost like how much time does it take between these teams on an average year like based on the current process that could be cleaned up by this potentially cleaned up by this process where it's basically submit submit negotiate cool off negotiate go to a panel whether it's a singular judge or an arbitration panel of experts and get an opinion. Okay, that's pretty clean. Again, pretty standard practice. But from your perspective, from your point of view, do we have that cost? And then on the opportunity cost of how much time and energy your team has to dedicate to that?

—

Yes, we can get that.

—

Yes, we have the cost of like the arbitrator, I mean the lawyers and um the whole negotiation cost to rent out the uh facility and all that. So, we can get that to you.

—

Yeah. And I think my point is is kind of back to what attorney Wade just said is is if you have one date with one venue to hear multiple cases like that that incremental cost should pale in comparison to the ongoing attorney's fees and professional services fees that that would go and and again I want to see the numbers. I'd asked for it a couple months ago, but like I'd like to see that because I'm that that is a a very reasonable thing to say the cost is too much, but my guess is is it's very incremental and should be very efficient, especially if that date is put on the calendar months out and that arbitrator or that panel is given notice. You know, that that seemingly is a very simple thing. Um, and ultimately, I think at the end of the day, kind of like attorney Wade said, whether you know, you want to be dramatic and say the Constitution is a social contract, but at the end of the day, great point. The mayor is required to do certain things under the charter. If he doesn't cooperate, he's in violation of the charter. I mean, there are steps to take that. The reason the council doesn't take that step is honestly, we have to mutually cooperate with the mayor. And honestly, by the time we filed a grievance or or a lawsuit saying that the mayor's in violation of the charter and it goes to court, yada yada yada, we've just wasted a bunch of time. So
3:46:58

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

to I agree with attorney Wade's point like these organizations and us have to come together in good faith through this process but the process itself needs to needs to change because much like the grant hearings early on we're taking hours and hours and hours. I think we spent my first year for $2.6 million of an $800 million. We spent 90% of our time listening to grant hearings versus talking about the actual budget. I know that this is incredibly important because I know the amount of uh uh percentage of our budget that we spend on personnel and I know that you guys do a lot more than just this throughout the year. I listened to Mr. Cington talk yesterday. He's like, I just feel phone calls on FAQs. I get it. Like I do, but this process has got to get smoothed out and a lot of the background noise has got to go because at the end of the day, it's going to catch up with a lot of us and and I won't be here when it does. So for me, I feel the very strong need with term limits, etc. to put a process that I feel is smoother in place and I think that this starts to turn the corner on that. And to attorney Wade's last point about changing it, no process is perfect. Like I already see some issues in here that I think could happen, but that only happens when people don't come to the table in good faith to negotiate a good deal. So like that's just that and I'm not implying that nobody that people are doing I'm not implying that nobody's doing that. I'm just saying like that's like the only way this stuff really works. So, I mean, uh, with that, I yield the floor. I do want those calls, though.

—

Thank you, um, Councilman Spinosa. And and and we we respect you all, but in this forum, we just don't have outbursts. So, it's nothing personal to any individual person. It's just the decorum and the setting that we're in. Of course, during um meeting downstairs, you all have the opportunity to come and speak. And of course, you all can reach out to any of us or send any additional information that you want to be considered. Thank you. Council Miss Sposza, you're recognized. And then Councilwoman Walker.

—

Thank you. Uh Madame Chair, I'm looking
3:48:59

Show transcript (11 turns)

—

at my notes. Council Carlile just made a lot of the comments that I was going to make, but um is there any way Allan you could get us like a simplified summary of the pros and cons? I mean, I I love all of this. I mean, I like the way it sounds because similar to the people in the audience, the administr we have a great relationship with the administration. There's been other times that the council is not. So, as we go through the budget process, if this is going to make people, you know, legally be more forthcoming with all the information and by the time it comes to us, I'm like, hell yes. This is amazing because police and fire represent 65 70% of our budget. Um, so I I'm excited about a lot of this stuff in here, but is there any way you could give your favorite council person a cliff's notes version of this?

—

Yeah. Um, and then, you know, first responders, I mean, this is just a big deal um that we get this right. So, I appreciate all the questions today and I appreciate you putting this together.

—

And I I like, excuse me, I like what Councilman Smiley said as well. You talked about maybe doing it next year. That

—

that sounded good. Get some clarification.

—

And and me too. I just don't want us to rush. That's all. But um Okay.

—

Yeah. Thank you.

—

Thank you, Councilwoman Walker. You're recognized.

—

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, um this is more or less a comment going back a few minutes. So, if the council receives last and best from both, then the administration should do the study. That's what I'm thinking.

—

Thank you. I yield the floor.

—

Say that again, Council Walker. I'm sorry.

—

If the council receives best and last from both, then shouldn't the administration do the study
3:51:01

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

recommendation, but I don't know that.

—

Okay. Thank you. I yield the floor.

—

Dr. Warren, you're ready. have a real quick comment.

—

If we are going to be trying to change this process, um I think it might be wise for us to not delay it a year because if we want to adjust it, we have an idea of what we've done and then we'll be putting a new council trying to figure out what we've done and why we did it after we just been one year. So, uh, although it makes some sense to delay it, if we do it this year and it's not right, then we can fix it because we knew what we did, the next time we may have four or five people who are on here that weren't involved in the process and didn't understand what it is they're trying to fix it. It might be easier to fix if we do it this year. That's my only comment. Thanks, Madam Chair.

—

Good point.

—

Thank you, Coun um, Councilman Dr. Warren. Uh, Council Miss Smiley, you're recognized.

—

So, I made a comment. I was just trying to make sure that it can be done. All right. And I think it can I think our dialogue, but I think some of the members are unclear about the dialogue that we had because we were hitting on several different things. All right. So, one, tell me if I'm right. So, it's possible to amend it, amend this current ordinance to keep the part where the mayor has to present, you know, the the budget, the city's current financial position and be forthcoming with that. And it's also possible to and say, hey, we want to eliminate the three judge panel where um the bargaining units and administration will have to present and and argue about where they are. But we can also instead of that part, we can require both the administration and the bargaining units to present. This ain't the right term for it, but it's the only way that I can think through essentially a legal brief saying what their positions are and here's the reasons why. and the arbitrator can essentially rule uh rule
3:53:02

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

on the briefs so to speak and that information can be provided to the council so that the council can be fully um informed about the arbitrator's decision and then at that point once we have the ruling so to speak because I don't have the accurate returns for it the council could then you know take that in consideration when it ultimates makes the decision and one one other thing that out. I don't know what they have to say about it, but there is at least a point where they get to argue for the recommendation and that's

—

that's in the legal brief though, right?

—

No, no, that's immediately before we

—

Oh, they get to come to council. Okay. All right. Well,

—

I can keep that part

—

and then move on from

—

Okay. Uh Okay. Because you know, council here here's here's here's where I am. I really like where I'm going in terms of, you know, the dialogue with Attorney Wade, but you know, um, if you're uncomfortable being, um, lobbyed by I'm just say what I think. If you're uncomfortable being lobbyed by the administration or the associations, this is not the place for you. In this position, you have to make difficult decisions, but also you have to know what comes with the role. We have to be um honest with ourselves that no matter what we do, we're going to have to make the final decision. We can't push off the authority on the coun the authority of the council on anyone else. We as a body have to make a decision. Whatever decision it is, we have to stand on that. Or as my nephew would say, we have to stand 10 toes on it. 10 toes down on whatever decision we make. We can't push it on anyone else. It is our responsibility to choose how this process goes unless you bring another referendum to change the charter. I don't think that's going to
3:55:04

Show transcript (18 turns)

—

happen. So, this is where we are. We will have to make the decision. So, y'all clearly know where I'm leaning. I need to spend a little bit more time to think about the unintended consequences, but that's where I'm leaning. So, that's all. I'm off. I'm out.

—

That's everybody. Um, any other questions?

—

Okay,

—

I have a question. So, are we voting? Are we going to

—

digest this and vote? Well, I had it down for it because that's what I realized after we did a motion and something else is that it was down for a discussion and not for any action on today.

—

Madam Chair, is the is the third

—

It's on the Yeah, it is. It's on the regular agenda down.

—

Can someone tell me this a point of information? Can someone tell me assuming I had a prop amendment coming? Can someone tell me uh the implications of of moving the hold until the next meeting if there's any implications so that I can have time to thoroughly uh come up with an amendment or

—

you can but it is March.

—

Okay. So if I move the hold the next time it'll have to be same nine minutes. Can I move the hold up here because if you want to make it

—

we have to do it downstairs.

—

Do it exactly. Okay. So, I'm making a motion to hold. Just know that uh an amendment is coming to this ordinance. Uh trust me that I'm going to see it through and and the move to hold until the next meeting and there will be a request from the same nine minutes at the next meeting. That's where I'm at. So, I move and I'll second

—

and I and I just

—

and we'll do it in exe.

—

Yeah. I just I just adding to the point and and and I will say since there is a hold until the parties that means there's three weeks before

—

this meeting and the next one for anything and everything meaning like we should be all wrapped up that that right I mean that I just want to point that out. All right.

—

Let let me uh let me just say one thing.

—

Um we put an arbitrary date for this paradigm sharing information financial
3:57:07

Show transcript (13 turns)

—

information March 15th. The administration advised the association yesterday or whatever they couldn't do until you push this down the road then there will not be anyone. No, they won't use the formatting. Maybe they will voluntarily, but this requires them to to come forward with detailed information to the association. Without that, they may just give them

—

I mean, if they

—

piece of paper, here you go.

—

So, if they don't operate in good faith and it's up to this body to hold them accountable, I believe the administration will. I I I choose to believe that. But I I do like I do like a lot of what's this? I'm assuming they can get it done. If they can't, we'll figure it out.

—

What I what I would suggest,

—

what I would suggest is that you consider the whole

—

there's a way that I canate what you

—

Okay, I'm not that good, but Okay, I like that. I'm not that good. I just need some time.

—

Thank Thank you. And I see a few people just what is it? just speculating out there in the audience. If there are some of you all that want to speak to us um and and tell us your concerns, we would like to hear them in the meantime. Councilman Sposa, one last comment.

—

Thank you. And just procedurally, so if that were to happen today, you know, if that were to happen, we and it was voted on today. If Councilman Smiley wanted to change something, we could hold the minutes at the next meeting

—

and you could do that, too. So, just throwing that out there procedurally, you know. So, thanks. Thank you. And before we um we have no more items, right? And before we adjourn, and I'm sure that um our um former chairman, Councilman Canali, Mr. Smiley, my meeting is still going on.

—

I'm not the one with talking

—

and and Mr. Thank you. I wanted to just um I'm sure that um our
3:59:09

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

chairman of the public safety committee will do an a formal moment of silence, but being that it's personnel committee, I did want to acknowledge our officer that was shot um this week. We are praying for him and his family as well as other officers impacted. Thank you. This meeting is adjourned.
5:04:50

Show transcript (10 turns)

—

Good afternoon. Welcome to the March 3rd meeting of Public Safety and Homeland Security. Miss Hman, would you please call the role?

—

Yes. Councilwoman Walker,

—

Councilwoman Cooper Sutton,

—

Councilman Warren,

—

Councilwoman Sween Washington,

—

present.

—

And Chairman Canal

—

here. Chair observes a quorum. Um colleagues, for those here in the committee room and those who are still sitting in your offices in the back, um I want to start uh the committee meeting. I want to recognize and congratulate our newest deputy chief, Dennis McNeel, senior. Congratulations, sir. we congratulate you on your promotion and we are so glad to have you as part of our senior leadership team of MPD. Um secondly, and uh Councilwoman White mentioned it briefly in her committee. Um I know that all of you would like to hear an update. Um, so Chief Davis, Mayor Young, and I visited Officer Molina the other day and um, I've got to tell you, when I walked in the room, I almost collapsed. I expected to see something far different from what I saw. And uh, he is a true walking talking miracle. Uh, there is no doubt that he had his guardian angels with him.

—

Amen.

—

On that day because it could have been very different very quickly. And um so colleagues, just for us and for all of our the general public, it's just a sobering reminder of the dangers um that our officers face each and every day. They never know when they go on shift what is in front of them. So we can't thank them enough um and give them enough praise for what they do and sacrifice and the families that their and the sacrifices their families make each and every day. Um, but also
5:06:51

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

part of Officer Molina's Guardian Angels that night were our two MPD officers, Officer Preston, Officer Franklin, if they had not jumped into duty and done what they were trained to do so quickly and so efficiently, um, there's a good chance that Officer Marina would not be with us. So, they are not here today, but I do want to publicly commend them, thank them, praise them for what they did for their fellow comrade. Um, and that's another example of how our MPD is just one big family looking out for each other, taking care of each other each and every day. So, with that, we do, colleagues, we do have um two updates today. And Chief Davis, anything that you want to add to that? But I did want everybody to hear that um and know how grateful we are uh as a city that Officer Molina is where he is today. Um because it could have been wildly different. Um so our prayers are still with him for his continued recovery. The city of Memphis is behind him and behind all of you that risk your lives each and every day. So with that, I'll turn it over to you, Chief Davis.

—

Well, uh thank you. Um, Chairman Canali, um, I can't say enough about this body, you know, our council members and and your leadership to reach out and want to be a part of going to visit, you know, one of our officers. It it didn't just mean a lot to our officer, but to his family and to the other officers that were in the environment to see, you know, the chief council members and the mayor reaching out and really uh concerned and supportive of u what this ordeal was was all about. And as it was said, it could have been very different if if it was a millimeter of an inch turned in in another direction, it would
5:08:52

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

have been a different kind of scenario. So, we thank all of you. Um, thank you for your prayers, not just um today and for officer Torres Molina, but for our officers every day by far. Um, they are constantly um going out and not knowing what they're going to face just on simple traffic stops. So, um it's a it's a blessing. Again, um thank you. Um today, um we're going to give you a bit of an update on just public safety in general. And I'll start off with um Speaker, I didn't I didn't tell you all who I am. I'm CJ Davis, Chief of Police, 170 North Main Street.

—

Assistant Chief Kula, 170 North Main Street. Deputy Chief Andrew Brown, 170 North Main. So, I'll start off with slide one, um, task force update, Memphis Safe Initiative. And so, um, the Memphis Police Department has led in many ways the Memphis Safe Task Force, which has contributed to crime reduction throughout our city. Um, using datadriven strategies, the department has deployed resources to the areas where they are needed most. And we have stayed very involved in making sure that um enforcement and you know uh analysis is driven by the data of where we need that level of support not just support on the streets but also support and investigations as well. So as you can see arrests um during the operational
5:10:53

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

pre period which started um October uh felony arrests are at 3,155 and misdemeanor arrests are at 4,574. Our warrants felony warrants over a thousand felony warrants have been executed and with misdemeanor warrants over a thousand as well. We just hit a thousand for misdemeanor warrants. um firearms, 1,876 firearms taken off of our streets. Um currency over a million dollars in currency. And the currency uh when it's seized is related to normally some type of criminal activity, whether it's drugs, guns, or other theft related types of um charges. Uh traffic stops, over 82,000 traffic stops associated with the Memphis Safe Initiative. This also includes traffic stops of Tennessee Highway Patrol and um the um Shelby County Sheriff's Department and other individuals uh vehicles recovered um that were stolen. Over thousand vehicles have been recovered, stolen vehicles, marijuana confiscated over 2,000 pounds of marijuana and methamphetamine confiscated. totals are 242 pounds of methamphetamine, which is a whole lot of drugs. Whole lot of drugs. Um, and just as an update, as you know, a couple of days ago, um, there were shots fired at the um, some of the individuals of Memphis State Task Force. Right now, that investigation is ongoing. Several different federal entities are involved in that investigation. Several rounds were found on the scene. So, we are uh trying to support them as much as possible. That wasn't involving MPD officers. It was just a group of federal task force members that were fired upon.
5:12:55

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

Okay. And so, the next slide really gives you um a quick look at crime reduction and our part one offenses. Um they are down citywide. So we're down 26% in murders, 22% in aggravated assaults, 22% in sexual assaults, 31% in robberies, 21% in burglaries, 24% in lararsenies, and motor vehicle thefts are at 43% reduction. Next slide. This is just another another view. three-year um illustration of part one crime. So for the month of January uh there were s significant reductions from 2024 25 and 26. As you can see in 2024 we were over 4,000 part one crimes in January month of January. And then in 2024, we were at 3,700 plus uh part one crimes. And as you can see for January 2026, significant reduction of 1,98 part one crimes. Still moving in the right direction. And then uh for the month of February, same reductions in January compared um excuse me, February compared to uh 2024 2025. And then so far year to date um for the month of February as we've ended the month of February, we ended the month with 1,678. Significant reductions there. Measurable improvements in in community safety. Here's another look at crime trends. Murders 35 compared to 24. Aggravated assaults 95 compared to 611. almost 40% down. Sexual assaults 106
5:14:59

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

compared to 53. And then robberies more than 50% 272 compared to 121. Burglaries 618 compared to 436. Even though 436 is an improvement, burglaries are something that we have really been focusing on because it's still not where we wanted to be. We still see a little bit of movement in certain parts of the city. So, we're putting together strategies so that we can get on top of that and get that number down even more with our burglaries. Um, as of late, uh, Rain Station and also Austin Peace Station has had few upticks in a couple of their wards and burglaries. And then in Larsenes, a lot of those are shopliftings. Um, our Larsenes um are down as well. They're not where we want them to be. We But we have business owners and, you know, community uh partners that are working with us on how to curtail shoplifting, how to use various types of mechanisms and awareness. Um we have business awareness forums so that we can help our our businesses um curtail some of the shoplifting that they see. And then motor vehicle thefts, that's a huge drop right there. And we're all really excited and happy about that because I think um our autothefts were a bit of a nemesis for the city uh in the last couple of years. So huge reductions almost 60% down in motor vehicle thefts. Next slide. Here's a snapshot of every precinct. Um starting with Austin P. They're down 41% uh yearto date. uh much fewer um aggravated assaults in some of our precincts than we've seen in the past. However, we have a couple of apartment complex that still present a little bit of a issue, but we try to get on top of it before it gets out of hand.
5:17:01

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

Uh Rain Station um is down 39%. Mount Mariah Station 44% Crump Station 40, Tilman station 42, North Main Station which is our downtown um precinct down 37%. Airways is a whopping 50% down and uh Appling Farm Station 52%. Good work out there. And Ridgeway station is down 46% in part one crimes. Next slide. Our calls for service also down. January calls for service were about 16,000 less than January of 2024. Um that's huge drop. And then um in February, of course, keep in mind we had a lot of snow. So we had we we crime fighters love snow. And um we had a reduction in cost for service as well. Um about 70 7,7400 about 7,400 less calls in the month of February as well. Traffic crashes are down about 12%. Um we've had 507 less accidents to respond to which is which is huge. Uh however we are still working on various types of strategies as it relates to um traffic crashes in the city. And not just that we're doing some analysis on pedestrian fatalities and pedestrian injuries. Uh roads are pretty treacherous for people who are on foot. So, we're we're planning to work on doing some analysis not just about where, but who are the people who are being uh victimized the most as it
5:19:02

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

relates to um pedestrian fatal? Is it our residentially challenged population? You know, are are they are there people who are just um not using crosswalks and and crossing the street in the wrong place? Is it lighting? So, we're doing some analysis on that. Uh, the last thing I'll say is that um domestic violence still is an issue um in the city. However, um we are down 13% in our domestic violence um types of of incidents. And over the last 28 days, we're about 10% down in domestic violence cases. But some of our homicides, sometimes a large portion of homicides are associated with domestic violence, too. and burn. Any questions? That ends my report.

—

Thank you, Chief. Colleagues, u just to echo what Chief Davis said, obviously there's still work to do, but this right here is something for us all to celebrate um in all of our districts because it's citywide. These these have been huge wins for our city and for the people of our city. Um and with that, I'm going to go to council members. Dr. Warren, followed by Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.

—

Thank you. I just had a question on the reductions that we had like the the reductions crime reduction success part one crime down citywide. Was that 2025 data and how much of that was before we had National Guard and all of that here? Because I know we had a safe task force working before we had the National Guard. Yes. Can you can is there a way we can parcel that out to see if there's a dramatic increase with that and we can say okay this is how many extra people we need

—

right

—

because I've been every time I see a National Guard person I've been telling you we're hiring if you check with Memphis Police Department we're hiring

—

so uh
5:21:03

Show transcript (16 turns)

—

we just did a commercial so you'll see

—

for the guard

—

you're going great

—

y

—

okay so

—

we did I mean many of our officers are national guard

—

Oh yeah you know, or ex-military or whatever. So, I mean, that makes perfect sense. And out of the three that I talked to at one one lit up, you know, the other two guys obviously had were old enough to have family someplace else, but the younger guy was thinking. So,

—

well, thanks for for um helping to recruit. I'm gonna um

—

I'm gonna get um Chief Brown to really talk about because we've been really working to sort of bifrocate our numbers to ensure that we can keep track of what MPD's numbers were over the last you know two years as we were we were consistently pushing every category down and then of course you know having the task force here is like having you know 200 additional Yeah, in my mind it's you know what we've been saying the 2500 figure that we came to.

—

It's just obvious when we got enough people,

—

you know, we're not working people to death. You're able to get out there and do their job. It just seems so much better.

—

Yeah. Our clearance rate is going up because our officers are having more time, investigators having more time to spend on investigating cases. And we have federal resources analysts and other individuals with the FBI that are working with our homicide unit. Um our marshals are helping to identify people who have been at large and they are working with us. That's why we've captured over 40 42 people. It's probably more now 42 people with outstanding homicide wars. That brings relief to families who have been waiting for somebody to catch that person who has committed um you know such a heinous act on one of their

—

also know how many people's lives you save when you do that.

—

Yes, that too. Absolutely.

—

Thank you.

—

Brown, did you want to touch on that real quick?
5:23:03

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

Yes. So, I just want to be very clear that the Memphis Police Department was doing the work beforehand. So, just looking at the numbers, and I pull the numbers up here from January 1st through September 30th, we were still down 22.9% in all part one categories up until that time. So, we finished kind of on the same track in most categories. The biggest exception would be our autothefts. And going into the surge, we were 37.43% down in autothefts. Obviously, it helped us a lot having the extra manpower here drive those numbers down even further. Um, but you know, we still if you look at the the numbers on that slide that you had, Dr. Warren, those were already the numbers that we were seeing through the first of the year.

—

That that's the point that I wanted to have everyone understand because I want people to know what a good job you guys were doing. And I don't want people to think somehow we were just crying out for federal help and we would not be where we are or not be looking good had we not have the federal help come in. Admittedly, we're glad to have extra help. I mean, I know you guys are glad to have people do traffic duty so you can do crime duty. Uh, and so that's been helpful, but I I just think that's an important part of our message that we need to get out for people.

—

Thank you.

—

Thank you.

—

Thank you, Dr. Warren. Counciloman Cooper Sutton. Thank you, chairman. Thank you for this presentation. And I just have a few questions. Um, we've had this presentation for a couple council meetings, so I've been able to kind of go through it, dissect it, look at it. But, um, can you talk us through what the task force is really focusing on for the next quarter and the next few months and what drove these priorities?

—

Okay. So um I think I think what helped us to ensure that we had synergy with the task force is we started communicating from day one about what was needed in the city and we meet every morning um virtually uh to really
5:25:05

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

discuss the numbers and where the focus has been on the previous 24 hours because what we want is we want to make sure that the federal help that's here is focused in the areas and on the types of crimes that are being committed. So, as we move forward, we still have and I mentioned a couple of crime categories, burglaries and and every now and then we have, you know, aggravated assault here and there. So, what we're trying to do is is marshall those resources to those areas with our officers. They actually go to every precinct every day at every roll call and they are paired up with Memphis police officers. So they're not trying to figure it all out on their own out on the street. Of course, you may have, you know, some some of them doing other types of federal work without us. But for the most part, the line share of the work is being done aligned with Memphis police officers

—

with the exception of immigration.

—

Thank you for making that clear. I think you've answered one of my questions that I was going to ask as I was going through the presentation um and looking and then just watching and I had an opportunity to talk to one of your homeland security guys um had an opportunity to uh speak with him and um some of his team members. They were at the White Station uh neighborhood watch and we were just really excited that our neighborhood watch person was able in that area to get them to come and talk. And we also had the National Guards which was really very informative and questions that were just boiling um in the back of constituents they were able to ask them and be very transparent. Um my next question is as I was looking at the data and you just kind of said something. in a sense what I want to know um can you just kind of talk us through what's getting in the way of resources coordination policies and what can we do as a counselor or anyone to help you move faster
5:27:06

Show transcript (8 turns)

—

that's a big question

—

yes it is

—

so some of what gets

—

that's when you give me time to

—

I know to dissect

—

to dissect yes

—

I uh I think and I think my my team could probably agree that we have really worked work to get over whatever humps. We're using technology every day to work smarter and not harder. We're trying to work uh really closely with our our um US attorney uh as well on federal cases and monitoring those state cases that we have our our our attorneys that are assigned. I don't think they're here today. I think they're at the academy today teaching. But our attorneys are also working really closely with our with our DA's office to ensure that when we make arrests that especially on serious crimes that those individuals are monitored through the process so that we don't have any gaps and loopholes where that that individual that person is out committing the same crime again. Um, as it relates to policies, I think some of our nuisance um policies and and ordinances, I think we've been talking about how do we um do better uh with code enforcement issues. Code enforcement isn't in our lane, but it cross-pollinates with the work that we do every day. If there's a nuisance property, it impacts public safety as well. And sometimes eliminating a nuisance p property or mitigating that property can take a long time. and um that's part of the whole, you know, public safety ecosystem. So, those are some things that I think as a city we could probably continue to work on.

—

And I'll just ask one more question. I have a uh a few more, but I think this one is kind of more um geared towards um the neighborhoods and the community. And you know when I looked at the numbers at the crime trending numbers and then um
5:29:07

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

what you're saying that's happening over in the precincts the percentage that is happening in the precincts um are there any resource gaps um or staffing gaps that are slowing down any implementation that would possibly affect any roles that the neighborhood association can play in identifying um hotspots and how how are you all coordinating with and collaborating with the neighborhood associations and how are they working together so there won't be such a fear

—

of uh task force it was one question that was asked in the neighborhood community uh in our neighborhood meeting was I think the task force may uh have been looking for someone and you know this was an older very older a settled community and you know them just showing up kind of frightened them and so how do we make it

—

community safe?

—

I know I know we can't tell them that hey we're coming but not to have so much fear and what gaps and implementations we probably can put in for the safety and the reassurance that MPD and the city of Memphis we are concerned about our communities

—

and how this is interacting. So, I think one of the um one of the proactive things that we've been doing is is making sure that our neighborhood watch coordinators are bringing people together and using those forms to help sort of demystify the work and answer questions that our community members have. This past weekend, we we inducted I can't remember the number. There was several um about 170 new neighborhood watch groups and a very big turnout. lots of um you know excitement about what we're doing as a police department, how important it is for our neighborhood
5:31:08

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

watch and those forums to be there to not just hear about, you know, the work that we're doing, but also to have an opportunity to have dialogue about the Memphis Task Force, just like those individuals that that showed up at the meeting that you were at. Um I heard how beneficial it was for community members to be able to ask questions. Many people don't know that our National Guard really are not the police.

—

They're not.

—

And they are here and they're supporting us with visibility in certain areas and very strategically placed in certain areas. But I think us bringing our community members and and getting them more engaged and mobilized in the community is a way for us to sort of dispel um the myths about what's happening in the city.

—

And so this is the last question. This is probably going to be a hard one and if you can think about it fine. Are we ready to stand along?

—

Well, I think we have we have captioned the the saying sustain the game. How do we sustain the game? And part of that is when the safe task force whenever it exits, we've gotten commitments from our US attorney's office to help build the federal resources. And I think his voice in this administration is going to be critical in building more FBI agents, more ATF agents, more of those resources that Memphis should have had long time ago. Our our governor has committed to leaving 100 Tennessee Highway Patrol here. That's like me having a hundred more officers on our street. We didn't have that. You know, we didn't have two Tennessee Highway Patrol dedicated to Memphis. And so, just to have those extra resources, it helps our officers to do the work, you know, in the city, in the neighborhoods. and we we'll still be on the interstates working side by side with them, but just not inundated
5:33:11

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

with traffic issues. Traffic is calmer, seeing less driveout tags and so on. So, we think sustaining the gain is to have that plan where we have those additional resources as we continue to do do the work and continue to drive the numbers down.

—

Thank you.

—

Thank you, Councilman. Councilman or Vice Chairman Carlo.

—

Thank you, Chair Canali. Uh God, you're a pro. Such good such a good answer. Kind of answer good answer. You're very No, it was it was good. I mean, the answer is yes. We need the sustained effort. like stand alone is, you know, it puts you in a position where it's like it's a very fair question, but I understand the navigation there of look, there isn't a police department in a major United in the top 60 cities in the country because of the way that we've evolved that cannot or that operates independently of federal and state resources. And it is by design that way. Like it's it's by design. It's been that since we ramped up out of 2001. Like it's been Yeah. So, um I guess really quickly, we agree crime's down, calls are down, MPD is leading the the the effort locally. We recognize the resources are there for visibility. What I guess where my question is going to come from is going to be kind of on the budget side because we've often talked about compliment for so many years

—

and we really haven't circled back to that and today may not be the day because I'm not prepared to have it but but because we're cycling in

—

um so what I want you to think about is like as you're speaking to the mayor and you're coming in and we're talking about like what sustained effort is it's like okay 2,300 officers the the number yeah I mean that would be great but what you're really saying is the state highway patrol gives from 2000 to 21 I get Two Rivers Task Force which gives me another you know 50 to 75 depending on the day maybe even more depending on their resources. So like I get what you're saying like right
5:35:12

Show transcript (9 turns)

—

and like when you say you're cross-utilizing this is what's so frustrating those resources like

—

they are the most important thing possible right and it's and and whether they are employed by it could be a block grant whatever I'm just saying the resources are there so where I'm where I'm driving in at is we have always had this this back and forth about retention overtime etc. I know that that is not going to change under our current model because of that. Like we'd either have to get so far beyond help from the federal government that you didn't need half of half the city, right? Like you didn't need to patrol 300 plus square miles,

—

right? So where I'm driving with this is like h to the point of like stand alone like are we going to be able to have a conversation of what you think and I'm going to use this phrase even though it's not I'm not a marketing person but like the modern Memphis police department's SOP is going forward based on its current compliment and techn technological you know arsenal its federal and state resources like what is our new labor model look like because I don't see a path between now and 20 years from now to 2500 officers based on attrition and just the labor force and like that's not a Memphis problem. That's a labor force problem. Just like I'm sitting here talking to Philip Davis about CDL drivers and everybody else. It's like I'm not going to go find

—

144 officers on top. What do we lose? We lose two 300 a year, but we lose likeund

—

14 to 134 something like that that we that we would we would call like our attrition number. Yeah. So that means I got to go find 200 officers a year for five straight years or that's not going to happen, right?

—

Like we have to acknowledge that in the money whip

—

and I don't want to get on that. But what I'm saying to you is at some point

—

as we are cycling in on these budgets and and you now have had a full run rate and you probably through the summer I think with the task force is what I understand.

—

Yeah. I'd be really curious if you and your team would get with that group with TBI and those partners and say, "Hey, let's take a look at like what a new our
5:37:13

Show transcript (11 turns)

—

new memorandum of understanding about how we could operate right through this administration and those onward like I know that whatever governor of the state of Tennessee recognizes how important Memphis is yada yada yada. You have a very unique perspective given your background and your current operating situation to make a recommendation for what the future complement and SOP could be on a broad scale about how we manage the city.

—

So now for me you help me plug that into the budget. Yeah.

—

Okay. Thank you.

—

We can do it.

—

We'll get together. Yeah.

—

And I'll probably circle back weeks from now. Like I really want you guys to think about it. This is a unique opportunity.

—

Absolutely. Thank you, Council Member.

—

Thank you, Vice Chair. Councilwoman Logan.

—

Thank you, Chair. Appreciate that. And thank you, Chief Davis and team. You all look so nice always when you come in here all shiny, especially now you're well rested and all that. But um to build on what my colleague just said, I am interested in how we are scaling up the relationships with those non-law enforcement agencies, agencies, the nonprofits and the churches to help to his point when they leave and things kind of start to get you know um we learn how to sustain the game.

—

Absolutely. But in that interim and those that's going to try to play you and those just you know try to see what they don't how to help now whatever. But my thought is this is a great time since we do have help to shore those opportunities and relationships up because what we another thing that needs to happen during this time is to redirect behaviors and

—

figure out I know at one time you were looking at um repeat offenders or a assault uh retaliation all that kind of thing. And so the behaviors that get people in the young people that grow up to be adults that get into this behavior, um parenting and um second chance and um mental health and all of
5:39:14

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

those things that um engaging the the neighborhood and the people in changing behaviors and talking to, you know, trying to get in at that level um ahead of those all the people leaving, you know, when they leave because those are going to need to be intact and functioning well across the city as a network to help combat the behaviors that were showing up prior to them, you know, prior to the alphabet being here. I say that.

—

Yeah. So is there anything or any thought being um any relationship building and thought being given to how we can use this love time to really strengthen those uh capacities and relationships? I think we had already started it you know even before the Memphis Safe Task Force. We brought um retired um Colonel Kirkwood back. He has been doing a lot of work in bringing our clergy together and with our violent crime intervention fund grant. They have been actually doing conflict resolution classes and churches uh all kinds of other clergy collaboratives and folks are coming on board. I met with him yesterday and he just shared with me what that plan looks like. How do we use all those other resources that you're talking about and also working with the office of neighborhood safety with Tama and our group violence intervention. So we're having some synergy right now with everybody understanding how important it is that this other entity police department doesn't have this service but this other entity here has this service. uh we can't do conflict resolution, you know, at the academy, but you know, First Baptist Broad is doing a class this weekend and then we have one with Charlie Caswell with with his group. And so what we're trying to do is tap into those other resources who do do these
5:41:15

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

other social service kinds of programs to just be sort of like a force multiplier outside of law enforcement more proactive and more preventive and we have just seen this round swell of energy and people who are excited about being a part of that too. I

—

think that'll be a viable way forward in helping, you know, with what um Carla said

—

about what does that model look like going forward because that has to be integrated, you know, as part of changing behavior or um

—

intercepting, you know.

—

So, and and I think with the recruiting piece, there are two different sort of issues to to deal with. plugging the hole in the bucket, you know, you're gonna have attrition, you're gonna have natural attrition. People gonna retire. They're gonna come out of the drop. They're going to go home. But having mass exodus when people are going to other places, I got five officers coming back to the Memphis Police Department who went across to other agencies for a short period of time. They're coming back. So, we're doing some some good things, some things that continue to attract. have a class of almost a hundred folks right now. Got another class that's starting. It's going to be a little bit over 100. This is the first time we had two classes that were 100 back to back. I'm a little bit more optimistic, I guess. You know, uh maybe to a fault sometime.

—

That's good.

—

But my folks are energized to to meet some of these goals to see whether or not we can get that number to 2100 and 2,200. If we're doing as as you know as well as we are by just looking at how we move our manpower over the last two years by ourself standing alone independent and got crime down another hundred another 200 will put some officers on foot patrol in places. You know we'll put we'll get some of our
5:43:15

Show transcript (11 turns)

—

officers out of vehicles and and and mobilize them in a different kind of way. We just haven't had that yet. And young people like technology. So riding the horses and the two wheelers and using technology that'll attract some young people to the force as well because they love that kind of stuff.

—

Yep. That's what that slide is right there. The helicopters, the all of the technology that

—

absolutely all of those. Thank you. All the above.

—

Thank you. Thank you all for what you're doing.

—

Thank you, Councilwoman Logan. Um Chief Davis.

—

Yes.

—

All of MPD staff. Um we again thank you for the work that you do each and every day. Job well done.

—

Colleagues, this highlights some some great uh improvements, some great numbers. But there is one area that that I do that we that we touched on. Chief Brown could probably speak much more intelligently than I could. But just the fact that 1876 illegal firearms, hundreds of pounds of illicit drugs removed from our streets, we're talking about ballpark thousands of lives saved, right? Yes, sir. So, uh there's really no way to quantify it based on that because no one will actually put a number to this amount of drugs saves this many lives. But when you look at the impact that that has year-over-year, the more drugs you take off the street, the safer the community is, the safer our kids are. And so that's that's why we focus so heavily on it. And we all know that drugs and guns lead to more violent crimes. You can't you can't have drugs without having guns. You can't have guns without the violent crime that goes along with it. And I it's it's not really quantifiable at this time, but it's it's significant.

—

Thank you, sir. Job well done. Keep up the good work. We support you 100%. Thank you for your time today.

—

Thank you,

—

colleagues. Anything else before public safety? We're adjourned.
5:59:04

Show transcript (18 turns)

—

is 2:27 March 3rd uh all day today and I hereby call to order the budget committee of the Memphis City Council. Miss Mauricio, would you please call the role?

—

Councilwoman Walker.

—

Councilwoman Swingen Washington,

—

present.

—

Councilman Dr. Warren.

—

Councilwoman Cooper Sutton. Chair Carile

—

present

—

and Councilman Ford senior.

—

Oh, and Councilman Ford senior. Uh, we have three items on today's agenda. I've got item one, which was requested by Councilwoman Logan. Um, we'll hang tight, I guess, as she makes Huh.

—

Oh, she coming. Okay,

—

that's all right. It's fine. Let's let's just move on to um Well, let's just move on item three. Resolution to establish rules of procedure of the Memphis City Council fiscal year 27 budget hearings. All council district sponsored by me but really the budget committee. There's a request for same night minutes. Uh this is the same rules and procedures from last year and is a prefuncter move.

—

So moved.

—

Second.

—

Second.

—

Moved by Warren, seconded by JSW. Uh any comments? Nope. All those in favor signify by saying I

—

I

—

seeing excuse me. All those opposed, same rights and privileges. Seeing none, this item goes down with favorable recommendation and same night minutes. Item number one, an update from law division on allocation and appropriation of ARPA interest revenue all council districts requested by Councilwoman Logan. Uh, Councilwoman Logan, would you like to set the stage for this dialogue?

—

Thank you, Chair, and I appreciate you um adding this to the agenda. um some time ago or at the end of last year I think we approved um the 900,000 for the uh at that time it was conservatorship program and just expanded expansion on our abilities to uh attack or address blighted properties and issues that are surrounding that. And since then um that money has been moved and some work has has been started
6:01:06

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

and I just would like um I asked the legal department to come and keep us informed on how that money is being used and what gains you're making with it and you know where we're going with that. So with that being said I would like to give opportunity for that to you for you to share on that.

—

Chief Gibson.

—

Chief Gibson welcome. The floor is yours and thank you Councilwoman. Thank you. Terara Gibson, chief legal officer for the city of Memphis, 125 North Maine. I'm standing in for our It's a lot. Do you hear that? Should I use it? I'm standing in for our um light litigation manager because she had to run the environmental court because there's a nuisance matter. We can't let we can't delay another day

—

and there's a lot of effort to delay and we just got to we've got to get this done today. And so she needed to be over there at 2 o'clock. So I agree to stand in for as far as the expenditures on the the the $900,000. So we sort of a multifaceted use. So initially we we've used the funds to start uh litigating a chance report. So litigating more complicated matters outside of environmental court. So we have filed the second one. We fired out outside council to assist uh Miss Lester with that. Um we also have um one two We've hired another blight prosecutor. We were able to we didn't have to wait for that. So that was very helpful that we were able to go ahead and do that now. Um we were able to rightsize their salaries. They actually never been paid commensurate with a resolution that created them. And so this enabled us to do that um right now as opposed to waiting on that as well. Um we also have four outside council now that we are that are handling our black matter. So, we've built a a relatively robust u black prosecution team pretty quickly and and the allocation of these funds have aided us in that and so far with
6:03:07

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

any litigation, it's an any litigation arising from City Beautiful or Black Matters or whatever the case may be, it's enabled us to be more aggressive. And so, up to this point, we've spent about half a million dollars on that endeavor. um with respect to the hiring of a new black prosecutor and we're about to hire another one that's about I'm sorry I don't have my glasses that's about 250 we were able to shore up some of the resources that we provide to the blight litigation clinic uh with this funding um we're looking at and I talked to you about this briefly and I you know try to say it high level because some of it I'd prefer to you know speak to in a confidential session but um it's enabled us to come up with some strategies that are somewhat non-conventional relating to the students that we're looking into to kind of expand um the type of work that they're doing. And so that's enabled us to to provide more resources to the school in that way at least at this moment. And we also were able to purchase uh litigation management case management software. We were Cleo which is sort of an industry standard on these matters. um three-year subscription, $96,000 for three three-year subscription. Up to this point, to just give you an example, all a thousands of cases were being managed in an Excel spreadsheet. And so, this has enabled us to come into 2026 and get our cases, enabled us to manage our cases in a more efficient way so things aren't lost and we can litigate effectively. So, up to this point, we're probably we've used all of it up to this point. And so it's been very helpful and enabled us to move very quickly on some of these matters. So we do appreciate um the council, you know, allocating those funds for this use. And how do you see that moving this moving blight al you know mitigation of blight forward? I do know um she kind of went into in depth about
6:05:09

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

the software and how important it was to have that um really to be effective

—

right

—

as it relates to the cases in chancery versus environmental. So when you when you have a the number of cases that we have pending chancery court, administrative matters and environmental court, the respective forums, if you don't have software to manage it, you know, it's not like it once was where we, you know, lawyers may have had 20 or 30 cases at a time. Inevitably, there will be slippages. Inevitably, things will be missed. if you're relying on a human to make entries into an Excel spreadsheet to manage cases, um you know, they're dates that could be missed. So, these softwares have ticklers. They build into the um I have an overarching case management software that I bought for all the litigators that that we purchased very recently because our software was outdated there as well. So it it minimizes my hope is that it eliminates but at this point I'll say it minimizes the the risk of missing court dates or missing matters or missing defenses or missing anything. It just helps overall us to see the big picture on every case going forward in one space and it builds, you know, emails in. There's so many there's so many aspects of of, you know, kind of the things that the litigators look at as they're prosecuting cases in this particular venue. And so that is

—

very helpful from an organiz organizational standpoint and lets us the more organized you are, the more together you are obviously the more you can handle. Well, I know blight and environmental court and the issues that we have had over the years and the bottlenecking and you know all of the um continuence and you know we do the work here we get it to a certain point and then nothing happens and it has to come back. So, this to me is really um monumental in turning the corner in us being able to take responsibility and
6:07:11

Show transcript (13 turns)

—

ownership of of some of this blight and not have to rely on others. We can go ahead from start to finish and get rid of some of it. And so, I'm looking forward to your continued work um with what you have and the team that you've brought on uh for training. And hopefully we'll have it to where every district will eventually have a team that can um attack blight in that in every district. So, um we'll keep our fingers crossed.

—

Thank you all for the work. We are going to do we are going to do it. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Are you back chair?

—

Thank you, Councilwoman Logan. Councilwoman White, you're recognized.

—

Thank you. Thank you, Chief Gibson. What would be helpful for me um and not now but just as the litigation goes forward

—

is to be able to see kind of what the measure of success is like with the dollars kind of

—

what the outcomes are in terms of the the blighted properties like how many have actually been turned over, how many are now back on the tax ro at some point again it has to go a little while but to be able to put a dollar amount um because it's just really difficult to be able to determine and kind of what the benefit is and what the cost is and then how we may need to uh what am I trying to say adjust that. So just kind of going forward if you'll talk to who is the person that is

—

Lonnie Lester.

—

Okay. We know if you could just get with her and ask her to start kind of um developing some data points to start collecting maybe on an Excel spreadsheet or something that can easily

—

No Excel.

—

What I mean for her own person Yes. I'm I still use Excel spreadsheets.

—

Oh my god,

—

they're very helpful.

—

Gosh, you AI people. Um, but no, just however she decides. But it would be helpful to just see those data points of this is how many houses we turned over. This is how many are back on the tax ro. This is how much we're anticipated to collect in these taxes to be able to really do some kind of dollar to to to expected return kind of analysis from
6:09:13

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

these new efforts.

—

Yeah. And there's some that may not be and I don't know if we can talk offline of how you, you know, want to handle sort of the the benefits that are not readily quantifiable. Like for instance, the nuisance closure she literally ran to court on to try to save to try to ensure it occurs today. Um, you know, and in that particular instance there, you know, 17 overdoses in 12 months, you know, multiple shootings, multiple robberies in in a hotel environment. And so it's if we get that shut down permanently and ultimately converted to something else or demolished or whatever um the case may be what is the you know the benefit to that community and so I don't know if there's some you know some benefit or some value you want her to look into I don't know maybe there's a study or something that might not be as readily quantifiable but definitely benefit. So we can add that too if you if you'd like.

—

But just

—

any benefit that we receive that's a that's a great benefit. We've been not able to put a dollar amount on it. But that's it's a great benefit in many ways and there is a dollar amount even attributed to it even if we can't capture it. Right.

—

But just some kind of report to be able to say hey this is how much we put towards this project and here's our return on this project.

—

Absolutely. And those are great uh testimonial. We're working real hard at that one. All of them. All right, thank you everybody. Thank you, Chief Gibson. Uh, moving on to item number two, which is an update on revenue collection all council districts requested by the budget committee. lasting last week. All right, chief person continues the conversation.
6:11:15

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

Um, do you want to pass out the So, I can't remember exactly where we left off. I know that we had the exchange of emails that gave us the three questions, but I guess as we've gone through this year, we're continuing trying to figure out where we're going to land on our projections. And so, I guess let's let's go go from there. Regal is passing out um the city of Memphis's quarterly financial update that was provided by the administration. Uh except for we made one ad which was the column line or this is just getting to fit. Did we make that ad?

—

Yes.

—

Yeah. So we added the

—

adopted. Yes. So sorry. So what you're what's being passed out now has five columns. You've got fiscal year budget adopted, fiscal year budget total, and then fiscal year forecast year total. And so what is what is if you look on the back, what's asterisk, and this is what we don't don't pay attention to the one that's next to adopted budget. And Walter, this is what I want to understand really quickly in this thing before we kind of get into the revenues, which is you got an asterisk over uh fiscal year funding budget. No. You sent a document. Sorry. We have an adopted budget of 177,861,167 in materials and supplies, but you've got a budget year quote total of 195533790. I don't know what that is. And then you've got a forecast which is the I know what that forecast is. That's specific to the roll forward and incumbrances. So where in I guess there's an asterisk note that says funding budget equals adopted budget plus roll forward back slash carry forward incumbrances plus council approved adjustments. That's a lot to bury in a $20 million line item. So like I we need to understand I guess walk me through that that $20 million swing uh
6:13:15

Show transcript (3 turns)

—

from 177861 to 1955 533 or 18 million and then and then bump up it bumps up to the forecast total which is what is that almost 30 million off. So you have a 105% variance from budget to forecast, but you really actually have more than that. You have a $30 million variance from adopted to forecast.

—

So what's in the number?

—

Uh thank you Walter person 125 North Main uh CFO. Give me a second and we'll I'll need to look at more detail on that. Okay. As Walter is going for this, here's here's the deal. We I I won't go back into it. I will just ask you to recall a series of comments that I made in our December meeting. Nothing has changed. And when I mean nothing has changed, the macro environment has not shifted back in our favor. So, we've got to start understanding our expenses and priorities. And then we're going to te touch on revenue here, which is a real problem that we have not touched on. And I was aware of the problem coming last summer in that Tasser has been studying it and I sit on that body and it's a purely studying body that makes recommendations to uh to the state legislation. So we'll talk about that in a second. And again the reason this is driving is that we're off for three weeks. We come back on what's today? Today's the 3rd. So we come back on the 24th.
6:15:15

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

So we come back on the 24th and then the next time we come together, the mayor presents this budget. So what I'm trying to do now is I don't want to say set the stage is not the right phrasing, but like I'm putting it out there now that these things like let me go ahead and prepare you for them so that you don't have this massive shock in your face in four weeks. Okay. What I cannot and will not be able to articulate to you though is any sort of finite spec specificity on what is going to happen. But I can tell you the trends are not going to be in our favor. And that's a financial comment, not a political comment, although politics are involved. Um, all right. I'm just going to skip to I'm just going to let youall figure out. So here I'm going to read this. So here's here you all keep going on your end. Um, unless you're Yeah, you'all take the time because I want the answer. Right. So, here's what's happening. You can pass this out. There is a bill called HB780 that is moving through the House that

—

it's already been approved. They did. Is a Senate bill been last? Yeah, that's right. We did 78.

—

Okay. Yeah. Sorry. It was approved last year. Goes into effect with this year's funding budget. Thank you. Yeah, was last summer. Sorry. What it's going to do is change how the state allocates funding on an annual basis. And so because they could not get down here and because there's not visibility or rather the mayor is not prepared which I will grant him that to share that number because he wants to exhaust all executive options. That's fine. That's his prerogative. I don't I don't hold any ill will. However, we have a different you know we have our own set and and as the budget chairman I think it's important to get it out there for us. So I asked Cliff Liippard who is the director of Tasser. They are purely a research wing to answer. Do you want a leading question for him that we asked him? I've just got the response.

—

Oh, sorry. I'm an idiot. Thank you. Having a day. All right. Basically, here's the deal. Regal, thank you for
6:17:15

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

the opportunity to provide input on the potential effects of public chapter 501 acts of 2025 HB780, which will result in changes to the way the state determines certified populations for the purpose of distributing state shared tax revenue to counties and municipalities. Previously, the certified populations were updated with each destinial census or in the interim if a city conducted its own special census. With the new law, in addition to any special censuses conducted, certified populations will be updated annually. based on population estimates. As part of producing the annual population estimates, the Tennessee State Data Center will has indicated that it will integrate special census results into estimates and adjust aggregate population totals to reflect special censuses. This came from a PhD if you hadn't been able to tell. Tasser staff reached out to the state t excuse me, Tasser staff reached out to the Tennessee State data center to understand more about their methology methodology and we will provide an update if we hear from them. This means that the proportion of funds that communities receive each year likely each year is likely to change annually. So where it was smoothed out, so like we lost the hall income tax, Mayor Strickland, very adept attorney in how he talked, we're losing that money. True, but we were smoothed out because the state share had to come in and make it whole. That's changing. And what makes it really difficult for us and what will make it even more difficult for the CFO is is trying to plan for that. Now you it'll smooth out because your population is not going to have these big jumps, but you won't know to a tea what your real smoothing is is going to look like. The bottom line, the effect of the new law will be to aortion a greater share of state shared tax revenue to fast growing counties and cities. Conversely, counties and cities with slower population growth or population decreases will be aortioned a smaller share. to answer your specific questions. Current population trends for the city of Memphis, Shelby County, Metro Nashville, and Davidson County. First bullet point. Over the last 5
6:19:16

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

years, the Census Bureau estimates show population decreasing for the city of Memphis and Shelby County. Over the same period show population increasing, Metro and Davidson. No surprise. It's uncertain whether these trends will continue. They could be affected by various factors like blue oval. Blue oval. Second question, how these trends could affect our current budget. Based on our conversations with the department of revenue staff, the new law will have no effect uh on fiscal year 2526. That's the year that we are currently in. If applicable, how this could impact the fiscal year 27 budget. Our understanding is that the new certified populations will be used to aortion state shared revenue for the fiscal year 2627. Based on conversations with the Department of Revenue staff, the new certified populations will be used to implement the allocations for July 2026 collections which are allocated to cities in August of 26. As stated above, the effect of the new law will be aortioned a greater share of state shared tax revenue to fast growing counties and cities. We don't know what the total state shares shared tax revenues will be, but the MTAS, Municipal Technical Advisory Service, has released per capita estimates of the state shared tax revenue for fiscal year six and seven. Uh the link is there and it'll be in your emails and available to the public and you can go and see that. It it's going to be about a $10 million hit. So, we had this conversation in December, which is we are getting pounded from both sides and and I I just there's really not a big discussion to say other than we're going into budget season and that has to be there. Okay. I I'll open the floor if anybody wants to wants to I don't have a lot of the questions or answers that you're going to have for me on this specific item. I only because I'm not an expert on this bill and that's why I reached out to Dr. Liippard is trying to get some visibility and understanding as we are barreling down here. Um
6:21:17

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

you know I I I will tell you having sat on on that that committee the goal just so everybody understands was not to be punitive. there was significant wrangling from smaller counties that are in a much more financial strain than Memphis ever would have put in because it's going to hurt them worse, you know, because if you're not growing, you're dying. And what the state's basically saying is is we're going to get behind our horses and reinvest. Um, so all right, I'm going to move on from that, but that's I mean that's that's the tone. That's where we're at on on on the the impacts of that bill coming down the pipeline. And there's I mean it's outside of Walter's control. He he can't do much about it. mayor is my understanding again I don't want to speak for his administration but I would I could only assume that he is addressing that as as rapidly as possible um to see what he can do. All right Walter on the 20 mil are we ready is

—

well uh I have some highlevel numbers but I don't have anything that reconciles back to the

—

I'll take a yeah I'll take I'll take building blocks at this point. Yeah. I mean, um, one of the things that we're looking at, and I I think we speak to this a little bit when we when we talked, uh, about eight days ago, uh, we had a little bit of an impact to it and I think we're looking at about 1.2 1.3 million there.

—

That is from payment of professional services fees. We have seen a general increase across the population for professional services for all of the divisions. Uh fire of course is driving additional expenses in that space as well. Um I don't have the specificity to give you block by block for the 20 million but those are the general drivers for for that is mostly in professional services.

—

Yeah. Then in between now and then, let's just get it emailed over. Yeah, we got to clarify for you

—

and I can get you something no later than probably by
6:23:18

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

council time.

—

Yes, ma'am. So that

—

did you say an increase of 1.2 in it?

—

N it. Yes, ma'am. That was the most specific one I could talk to, but it it's really across the board. If you really look at what's happened in our space, professional services have increased a lot for a lot of spaces. GS has had some increases. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me right now, but I can get that back to you.

—

And I'm going to go to Council Logan, but I will say this. I've looked through the budget. I'm not I've said this a million times. I know like 10% of what I want in that. But you're never not never. It is very hard to go in there and be like, "Got it. That's the one." Like that's the smoking gun. It is so incremental as you would expect in a large business. That's like why I always kind of go back to directors and I'm like, "Manage your business. Manage your business. Manage your business." Because it's in 2550,000 $200,000 hits. And like if I said to somebody, the average person in Memphis, hey, we blew 250 grand or we spent 250 grand, they would be taken aback. It's a lot of money, right? When the average salary in the city is probably in the 25s or 35s, I don't know what it is, but I mean, it's not high. My point is is when you say I spent $200,000 in a $1 billion budget, it doesn't sound like a lot, but you do that 35 times and it starts to add up and then you start to say, "Oh my god, we shot ourselves in the foot." I'll give you kind of an anecdotal one. I I was on ZBound. I'll talk about it. We spend $13 million a year as the self-insured city of Memphis on just weight loss drugs alone, right? And you start to look at that as an expense. And again, I'm not making a point that we should move away from it. I'm just saying if I had said that to you, you would have never believed me because it's but then when I'm like, "Oh, $14 million, that's a lot of affordable housing or that's a lot of whatever."

—

And so,

—

sure, that's fair too, Jeeoff. And my point is is that I could point to many different examples and this body uses
6:25:18

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

the term and I'm going to and I'm going to shut up on this last note because the mayor has his and you have yours individually and we have ours body. It comes back to priorities and this year my biggest thing is is that we do not have or should not believe that we have the flexibility and open checkbook to where we don't actually have to pick a priority two and say goodbye to a few. Now the way that gets done is our budget process and I just in my own individual capacity I'm telling you we really need to be judicious this year um going in going into that season and we're having a lot of conversations around that. This is why I mean our expenses are way above where we thought they were going to be and our revenues are basically below where they thought they're going to be and we've got 120 days left in the year and there's nothing on the horizon that says it's going to change dramatically. I will say we've got a lot of great things coming in May that could drive up sales tax but a lot of that stuff's baked in there. So for us as a body as you get requests as the year ends like I know people will come and you're not you're going to say well it's only 20 grand or 50 grand like those things will matter. I promise it's gonna start to matter. Um I feel like I'm I'm lecturing because I got lost. Sorry, Councilwoman Logan.

—

Oh, no problem. You're not lecturing at all. This is why we do what we do. This is where we need to do it at. And I'm glad um I appreciate you bringing this, it's very sobering. And when you think about the fact that we're also in a war, you know, and things are going to be impacting um at a macro level, which trickles down in in government to a micro. So um it's great for us to be able to begin to think about these things and the health of our city and as we always talk about our credit rating, our rainy day fund and all of that. So um I I'm appreciative that we're starting early to talk about what I am concerned about or would like to know. I know um that you said you were going to bring that information back because you don't know right now. Um at what point
6:27:21

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

do we start to know or keep up with that and we only have 120 days left. So, uh yes, Councilwoman and and part of the reason I didn't know is I was prepared to talk more about revenue today. Um, but I have been confirming as you've seen with my budget manager and we've been able to kind of quickly put together that it's mostly city shop charges. Uh, utilities are a big driver. Legal expenses are a big driver. It's a variety. But you know because M&S is a broad category and what I typically like to do when I prepare for these is give you more granularity which

—

again I don't have exactly right now but those are the big drivers that's causing in addition to the professional services

—

but you will be able to identify them when you come back. We will get that though. Okay. Thank you.

—

Thank you council. Councilwoman Crisen.

—

Uh thank you. Uh, Councilwoman Logan uh, answer one of my questions, but I wanted to go back to it. What did you say? It was 1.2 million.

—

Yes, ma'am. Um, when we spoke last Monday, we talked at some length about um, the need for software as a service. The typical acronym is SAS for that that they needed, you know, big software programs, big systemic software program license upgrades. those tend to increase at a rate faster than inflation. So, one of the things that has happened is though it was we tried to budget for it, the rate of increase was higher than we budgeted for, which led to about a 1.2 $1.3 million gap between the amount of money that we originally budgeted for to pay for those expenses and what these companies are now charging.

—

Okay, that I wanted I better hold on because I I vice chair
6:29:23

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

did say something. It's the question I'm about to ask probably don't even have an answer for it right now. So I'll just I'll just wait. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

—

Thank you. Uh Councilwoman Logan. So this question is not necessarily about this but it the conversation brought to mind you know we were all looking forward to 2027 when you know the big that clip where are we with that is it still what we thought it was going to be

—

um no ma'am it you know I think and this is getting into some history that I hadn't been around fully for but uh I'm I'm going I'm going to paraphrase as best I can. When the original debt cliff was projected, it was projected with a view toward us having no additional debt issuances from the time that the debt cliff was originally envisioned to now basically. So, it was envisioned at about a $60 million level. Um, when we issued the Accelerate Memphis bond, that brought us down to mid40s in terms of level. We've had several other refundings and debt issuances since then. The long story short is if you really looked at it right now, we're well lower than where we planned to be. Well,

—

ain't no money there.

—

And and I swear if you went back and looked two years ago, there was never there was never there. If you go back and look at tape two years ago, you'll see me sitting somewhere on this D saying there's not going to be any money there. The bonds ate through the bond debt service ate through all of your available cash. Furthermore, you leverage your balance sheet which cost us more capital because it cost our increased our borrowing costs. This is our issue y'all. Like this is what I was
6:31:25

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

saying in December. Like I'm going to keep pounding this thing and it's not political. Like we have got to put on business hats now. hard decisions are coming and like the only way through it is to have a very sober serious conversation, see through it and then we can all go high five later. But until we have that like the high-fiving stopping on the front end, we'll be right back here again. That's just my opinion. I mean, I I always feel like I'm the Debbie Downer in these things. Like, but I mean, I already walked us through I mean, I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but like I walked us through. We raised taxes. We spent an incremental half a billion dollars and we're broke still. Where's money? I know Joe's probably like, "Hell yeah, I've been saying this for a year." Uh, but my point is like I'm not I'm not here to look back. Like we've got a job to do in front of us. And this is my point. As we go into this budget season, it needs to be eyes wide open

—

because like I've said this again, I always feel like Marty feel like Martavius. I was on the school board. I've been here six years. I got two years left. like the budgets we put in place aren't going to impact me in any way other than being a citizen here and like they've got to be set up for success and I'm not it it is always so hard because people get their feelings hurt so quickly down here when they get their toes stepped on and it's like I'm not here to hurt your feelings. I'm here to make sure we're all doing our jobs and I know everybody else feels the same way about that but like I'm gonna I'm gonna end this because we've got to get on with our day. This is a sobering conversation. I'm glad we're having it now. Walter for just for his just for his I've worked closely with him is trying to lift a mountain. It's a very difficult task he's got. But we still have to do the job. So, um I'm going to leave it. Oh, I'm sorry.

—

No, no, no. I'm saying for me, I was looking back.

—

No, I look back. I'm always the one saying we shouldn't have done I mean, hindsight's great, but the only reason I'll I'll give one last anecdote. We left health healthcare oversight yesterday and we asked for three things
6:33:25

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

throughout the meeting and when we were finished with the meeting, it was my first one and there were two retirees and I believe John Cington and Matt Tom was on the line and they sit in these committees much longer and have much more experience. I just simply looked down and go, I don't know. What do you guys need? They said, nothing really. I said, great. All I want us to do is show back up next quarter with the three things that we talked about doing completed. Like that's the bar. Like and that's what I'm saying is like we need to make it that simple. We need A completed. Let's go do A. Did A go well? No. What went wrong? Great. Now we now next time we'll go do B. And like that seems to be a trudge sometimes. And again, I'm not imputing the mayor of the administration. I'm talking generally like through two two administrations of how it can function and the things that have to change because we are out of federal funding. Like the state y'all had to cut us a half a billion dollar check for our sports facilities, our major tourism district like just to get going. They cut a hundred million dollar check for downtown safety revitalization. That's after we got half a billion out of Accelerate Memphis and 300 million from CARES and ARPA. Okay. So, that's that. On that note, I'm adding a new item because it's my committee and it's part of audit. And because y'all had a very big discussion around the fairgrounds and I have yet to get this, a letter will be going out from Vice Chair White and I on behalf of the budget committee and the body asking for for this very simple thing, a cost accounting of what is known as the fairgrounds project cost segmented out. So this is how it works in a private development. If there wasn't a single nickel of public money, I got a $100 million deal. I'm going to borrow 80% against the bank. I'm borrowing $80 million in debt. I'm borrow I'm going to put $20 million of my own money in. The first 20 million that goes in is my
6:35:26

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

money. The next 80 million is the bank's money. The bank is going to ask me every month how I spent their money with photo proof. If I say I bought 50 refrigerators, I got to take a picture of 50 refrigerators and send it to them. That's a true story to send out a bank inspector every single month. If I build a mix mixeduse project, I would have to tell my accountant to go cost segment the project so that I can tell the IRS and the federal government what my taxable basis is in the project. So, the reason I'm setting the stage for that is is when you tell me that you do site work on a multi-acre property for multiple uses and you don't know what each use has on an allocation basis, that means you didn't do a cost seg. you don't actually know what your book value in the property is. So therefore, you couldn't even have a pilot. You couldn't take depreciation. And if you were to sell it, you wouldn't have a tax basis. So I want a cost accounting of the fairgrounds TDZ for the entirety of CAM space. So if you built a road, that would be a shared cost in the cost seg. It wouldn't belong to the hotel. It wouldn't belong to the apartments. It wouldn't belong to the sports facility. It wouldn't belong to the Liberty Bowl. I want to know how much cash and where it's been spent to date on the retail component, the mixeduse departments, the hotel, the Liberty Bowl, and the sports facility by use because they are legally separate parcels under the Tennessee either the Plat or the Tennessee condo act. Either way, they have to have cost segs attached to them. And the reason I want to know that is I don't know a single person who would run a business because we are the owners of those assets. I couldn't tell you if we were in an actual board meeting today what your invested capital is in return. Furthermore, and no offense to anybody, not trying to be a jerk, I couldn't tell you when the project's going to be
6:37:27

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

delivered with any real certainty. And we continually have cash going into it. Like again, I recognize there are certain positions where the only solution is to develop your way out of them and I believe the mayor is choosing that path. That is his prerogative. That is a fair option to make. That being said, this body or at least I am through putting yes on things until I actually know at a level that I would do in my business where this money is coming in from and where it is going and that it is market and that we're going to get what we paid for. So today is the third. That project has been on the books since 2015 or 16. If I can't get a cost accounting of that project to date in four weeks, I'm going to have an even bigger issue. All right. Thank you. Lastly, I know I Melrose. Well, well, I'll address Melrose from here. It it falls in the same line if Melrose has it because we should do it from the public. I was ask about Melrose if you don't mind as the HCD chair. My understanding is that there might be a deadline and I don't want a tax credit deadline to miss. But here's the deal. The document it's it's on the administration to bring this body documents that are like ready to go. And what ends up happening is it starts to be like, well, who's at fault? Like if if they if your developers need an option, it needs to be an actual option. This body shouldn't be recommended to approve a deal that they don't know how much money that they have invested in it, where that money's been spent, like what the fees are, like all those things. And even then, not a single person on this body, myself included, who's been doing this for 20 years, has put eyes on the lease that is referenced multiple times in the option agreement. And in the option agreement, you have a blank for a loan. It says the city shall
6:39:27

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

loan blank at blank years at blank percent. Who would say yes to that? Don't bring me that in the first place. That's my frustration. It's not that I don't want to meet with you. It's that I shouldn't have to. It's a waste of time. Stop doing it. Like when you guys show up with multi-million dollar developments, you should be coming like you were the developer going down to the CCRC because that is about one of the most coming here. Like the amount of tight ship stuff you have to have like buttoned up to come up here as a private developer when it's not with the city is different. I don't know why we don't hold the city accountable. They're the ones spending billions of dollars. And you're like, well, that's your job. I I'm I'm saying I'm here to start doing it and I'm going to be unabashed about it because I'm the one along with all of you that continually gets phone calls. I mean, Councilman, it's your district. I want you to have that hotel. I want that apartment building open for you. So, I'm going to get finally off my soap box. It's 308, but this stuff in my time left here is like at least from my position, I'm going to start to be as professional as I can about it. But I'm going to be very firm on these stances. I'm tired of being the nice guy. Be like, we'll get it next time because the next time starts to turn into an administration and an administration with term limits, I'm not giving it up. I appreciate everybody's patience. Even if you're thinking inside your head, why won't you shut up? You get three weeks off from me. And I usually don't speak many in many many of these committees anymore because this is the thing that matters the most to me because it's the money. All right. Um

—

yes, ma'am.

—

Are we going to discuss that? Walt. Okay. I'm not going to talk.

—

Yeah. We're going to get a whole bunch of info over the next couple weeks. And I think what I'm really trying to do is is politely, cordially, but firmly because our our performance, let me say this. If we were in a FedEx boardroom, AutoZone, IP, you pick a local company, I don't care

—

this.

—

And you miss your revenue projections and you missed your budget expenses as bad as we have this year. It is a very
6:41:28

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

difficult conversation. And I'm just saying that I refuse to go into budget season like this isn't happening. That's just me. So, that being said, I've got a good partner. I've got good partners. They want to help. They want to provide information. We have a very difficult task, but I refuse for us to not be sober about it going into it. Um, I need to get us moving on. We've got many other things to do. Again, I appreciate the continued cooperation from some of my partners. If you want to get something passed today, you got to gut your option on the deal. You got to take the loan out. You got to take anything that would bind the body. What we're basically doing is giving the developers permission to go and seek the application for the loan, the tax credits. And that's because if if I heard the feedback today correctly, the package wasn't tight enough to approve. That's not on that's not on us. That's on y'all. Um like for real, that stuff's got to stop happening. No other business for this body. Journal.
6:47:44

Show transcript (13 turns)

—

Yes. Do planning and zoning committee. They said it would be easy. They said just kidding. Welcome to Memphis City Council Planning and Zoning Committee. Today's Tuesday, March the 3rd, 2026. Happy birthday, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you.

—

Uh Clay, would you please call the role?

—

Councilman Ford.

—

Councilwoman Walker,

—

present.

—

Chairwoman Swearing Washington,

—

present.

—

Councilman Canali,

—

here.

—

Councilwoman Logan,

—

Councilman Warren,

—

and committee chair Spinosa.

—

I'm here, Clay. Thank you. Uh four items on the agenda. Um, we are going to hold item number three, and I guess we'll need to bring that up in executive, but we're going to hold item number three until April the 14th without objection. That's a request from um, Attorney Wade. So, item number three will hold till April the 14th. So, we've got three items on the agenda. We're supposed to have 40 minutes today. We're behind. Um, but I want us to still get our 40 minutes in. Um, so item number one, uh, presentation outlining the ongoing process and next steps for updating the Memphis 3.0 comprehensive plan, zoning map, and zoning code, all council districts. This was requested by your humble chairman. So Brett, the floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Brett Ragsdale with the Division of Pine Development, 125 North Main. Uh, and today, Mr. Nicholas Wardrop will give you a presentation. We're happy to answer your questions as well. Good afternoon, council members. Nicholas Ford, Division of Planning and Development. We're here today to give you a brief sort of status update on our ongoing effort to update both the Memphis 3.0 comprehensive plan and the unified development code, the zoning code. Um, we know that you've been getting questions about it, your staff's been getting questions about it, and we've been getting many of the same questions about our timeline, you know,
6:49:46

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

what the work is we're doing. So we want to just come here today and give you you know a quick presentation clear up anything and uh time permitting give you chance to ask your questions. So what exactly are we doing? Um we are updating three distinct but very related documents um the first being of course the Memphis 3.0 comprehensive plan um which was adopted in 2019. We've been working for the past two years on a five-year update um to to the comprehensive plan. The other two documents are the two halves of the UDC of the zoning code. One is the map of course that divides the city and the districts and the other is the code text. Um again, these are the three documents we're going to be bringing to you this summer um for and asking for your approval. Um but again they're three distinct documents. They're very related. And so we've been running a somewhat co concurrent uh join public engagement process on the three of them over the past um nearly three years now. So just speaking in general terms um if you get questions about what these three things are and you know what makes them distinct the move 3.0 comprehensive plan as it relates to this conversation is the vision. It's the big picture. It is the answer to the question, what do I want my neighborhood to look like in 20 years? What do I want my city to look like in 20 years? That's of course very high level. That could mean a million different things. Um, the comprehensive plan is a guide, and I highlighted that word guide for land use, housing, transportation, everything related to, you know, what we want our city to look like. Um, its goal is really to coordinate uh public and private investment, make sure they're working together, and as it's relevant to this conversation, it sets the policy direction for zoning updates um both in terms of, you know, developer comes to us and asks us to change the zoning to accommodate their project and as we're talking about today, um, a comprehensive
6:51:47

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

citywide zoning update, um, which we've been working on as well. So, document number two is the zoning map. This is the map that divides the city up into all the various zoning districts. What we're currently working on, and we'll have a proposal for you this summer, will be a comprehensive overhaul, the first citywide redo of the zoning map since 1951 in 75 years. Um, part of this process is to align that map to all the decisions we made as part of the comprehensive plan in 2019, which we didn't do back then. Um, and a big goal of this is to, you know, direct development back to the core of the city. Um, that's that's the major sort of battlecry that we've been talking about throughout this whole thing. And we um we hope that this map when we bring it to you a little later on this year. We'll do that. Finally, we're also updating the code text of the UDC. This was last done in 2011. This is the document that regulates development in all the various zoning districts. you know, as a as opposed to guides like Memphis 3.0. Our major goal with this is to simplify the text. Um, the text is mainly from 2011, some part from the 80s, some part from the early 2000s. It's ballooned over the decades to 542 pages. We're hoping we can get it down to 250 or somewhere in that neighborhood. Um, our goal really is to increase transparency, predictability, um, and collapse all those decades of changes into one cohesive code. Um, so those are the three documents. Again, we're updating, we've been doing a public engagement process for nearly three years now on updating these three things. And again, we're going to be bringing drafts to you this summer and asking for your approval on them. So, where are we at right now? Like I mentioned, we've been working on this in some form or fashion since early 2023. So, we're we're nearly three years into this process. We've held 42 formal public engagement meetings throughout
6:53:47

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

2024 and 2025. Um, and on top of that, held dozens of informal small groupoup sessions with neighborhood stakeholders. Um, too many to count. Um the main thing we wanted to share today and call your attention to today is back in midFebruary we published a first draft of that zoning map. Um it's available online. Um you can review it. You can see what the changes are um from the current zoning and most importantly you can leave your comments directly on the map. We've also published a YouTube tutorial you know to help folks you know if they've never heard of zoning before. Um it's about a 45 minute tutorial spread across two videos, but I it's intended to help folks who literally have never heard zoning before. Um we have explainer sheets for each individual district um in the proposed code. And we've got some various topic guides, you know, showing housing, you know, what the different housing types under the new code are, that sort of thing. Um and then my slide here says we've got 50 comments. Um we've already got on the on the map. Um, we've actually, I checked this morning, had 70. So, we're excited about that and we hope we get a lot more. Um, and that's part of why we're here today is to, you know, kind of increase public awareness. That's that's how we got to where we're at today. Um, coming up, we're continuing to hold public engagement sessions throughout March. We actually we held a successful one last night at Cross Town Concourse. Um, we've got eight more scheduled throughout the month of March. Um, we're reviewing comments left on the online map. Part of what I do on a day-to-day right now is, you know, reviewing comments we got in the evening before responding. Um, you know, having that internal conversation about what we're going to do. Um, currently we're finalizing the draft code text. We're 90% there. We're working through with our legal team and some other folks. Um, we're going to have a public full draft of that in March um that folks will be able to review and there'll be a separate public review period for, you know, folks can read the whole thing. and they can ask us questions. And again, we'll have all
6:55:48

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

three items to you um asking for a vote on them in summer of this year. Um to close out why this matters. Um as you as you're aware that the mayor has set an ambitious goal of having 10,000 new or renovated home by 2030. Um, these zoning changes are not only going to make them more help make that possible, but the goal is to direct that new construction back to the historic core of our city. Um, another thing is our current code is set up to react. We we've sat here and we've when we approved the 2019 um you know the comprehensive plan in 2019, we waited on develop developers to come to us and then we reviewed their projects um as you know whether or not they met the plan. What we're proposing to do now is to plan in advance um to go out and be proactive in um you know determining what we're going to allow and what we're not um and telling our development community clear yes and no. um get on the bus or get off. Um additionally, our tagline for this whole project has been simple, clear direction. We want to improve administrative efficiency. We we um the code because it's because it's has uh sections from different eras is sometimes sometimes conflicts itself and it causes a lot of administrative um hassle and headache. We're trying to improve administrative efficiency and also create clarity and understanding both for residents and for the development community. Um if constituents reach out and want to, you know, get involved, learn more, we've got eight more public engagement sessions scheduled throughout the month of March. Um all our resources, the best way to keep up with this process is 901cupdate.com. Um again, I'll plug you can leave comments directly on the map. That's the best way for folks to make sure that someone on our staff is going to read it and take it into account and discuss it internally. Um, additionally, folks can
6:57:48

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

email us at zoning@memphis.gov or call our maines line at 636649. Here you can see on your screen are public engagement events we've got scheduled throughout the month of March. I'll say we've already done two of them, but the two main ones we're plugging right now is we're going to be um we're going to be at cross town tomorrow and Saturday. Um, those are the big ones we're trying to get as the best turnout we can get. So, with that, I will be available for your questions.

—

Nick, thank you. Um, Brett, you two, you know, we were texting last night and you were at the meeting at Cross Town. I know Councilwoman Logan, you're in the queue first, but you you attended one. Um, where was yours? Raleigh Fraser, where I grew up. But, um, yeah, I asked y'all to come today. This is a huge deal, council members. I think y'all are all very aware of this. But, um, I guess about three weeks ago, four weeks ago, I started getting emails. Everybody was so freaked out that we were going to vote on this and like it was going to be done like two weeks ago and it was like, no, it's not. So, you know, I went to the one that left, which y'all have done such a good job communicating to this point and I know you'll continue to do that. So, I may even ask you to come back and do this to kick off every uh committee meeting just so we can know the dates. And I would encourage y'all to please go to at least one. Um I've had some um constituents that came in at a 10 out of 10 on a motion and then spend you know five or 10 minutes with Nick. We got it down to a seven. And it's good to be at a 10. I can get it to a 10 sometimes too, but you know down to a seven, back up to a 10, down to a five. But there are wins and conversations that need to be had by all of us on this council uh with constituents and legitimate concerns and things that we've all talked about. And y'all have been nothing but fantastic. The whole team has been. So I want to compliment you on that. And we've got what 90 days, 120 days before anything's voted on, something like that. So there's plenty of time for all of us to go to these meetings and and learn more about it on
6:59:49

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

behalf of our constituents and and work with y'all. I just want to thank you all for that and thank you for the the presentation and Brett looks like you wanted to say something but yeah

—

I did thank you uh chairman I just wanted to say that thank you for that I've seen people come in even last night at a 10 and after talking through some things you know we're down to a four and we're excited and getting comments that'll actually help us prepare and and bring this forward to you and I did want to say you know this is twopronged really three but our land use and development services is what used to see me as the zoning administrator we administer the zoning We also have our comp planning team that's here with us and they've been a huge part of it. We we've been working together really well and attending the meetings for both of these and so it's a great a great uh team effort and so um we look forward to more of that.

—

Thank you. And um you know JB Councilman Smiley earlier today was was joking but he was comparing stuff to um LUCB and you know all the paperwork that we get and that we go through and and council members I want you all to know we're trying to condense things down to just smaller bite-size things for us as they come before us in committee meetings. So thank you for working with me through all that. I was actually talking with um Brown Gil last night for a little while. So he's on the LUCB board. But I'm done with uh my comments. Councilwoman Logan.

—

Thank you, Chair, and thank you for your passion in this area as well. Um, thank you all for the presentation. Just a couple questions. Now, at first I want to say I have been dealing with Memphis 3.0 since the beginning before the first time and I'm huge supporter. I totally believe in Memphis 3.0 and theory and concept and uh know that we need to have this and you know any city that's worth its weight and gold and plan to grow and really connect it. um want the community involved. This is a great project. What I do want to say, I do feel that and I don't know why, but the first round there was more public engagement um that I'm seeing now or and and or
7:01:51

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

understanding. I'm not certain what the barrier or the the issue is now, but I do think it's important for us not to well, I do think it's important for us to work very hard to get more people engaged and introduced and understanding um what what's going on with the second phase two just to have buy in so that later there's not a public outcry that we didn't know, we didn't have an opportunity Nobody told me. I I didn't understand. And those those, you know, rules are in place, you know. So, I wanted to get a feel from you as to what we can do over the next 120 days. I know your team has worked very hard and done very well, a great job of putting all of this together. So, you know, you definitely don't want that to go to be in vain. So, what do you all feel? What are you seeing? What are you hearing from the community as they the ones that do come out? Um, and just when you're out and about when people are getting emails or those public outcries, what are you hearing and how are you addressing that between now and the next 20 120 days?

—

Thank you, Councilwoman Logan. I will say I think that part of the maybe perception um of the uh different engagement, it's more spread out for this update. We still had 42 meetings uh just for the comp plan which is what we had the first time which was the three meetings in each district. Uh so that engagement was the same but I think it was a little more spread out and we've been doing it for almost three years. So I think that some of the early meetings we're we haven't you know we've maybe kind of forgotten about. Um but this new these new set of meetings that we're having uh we are still talking about the comp plan as well as the code update and the the plan uh the uh zoning map update
7:03:53

Show transcript (10 turns)

—

which comes out of the comprehensive plan. So uh you know th this engagement that we have eight meetings scheduled and as we continue to move forward um you know we'll be looking for other opportunities and looking for places that need additional engagement. Our teams have been uh getting quest questions for uh individual meetings in neighborhoods and uh just with neighborhood organizations really small. Yeah. And they've been going and having those that are not um you know they're not shown on any uh website or any map. Some some notes are but we've had many of those. And

—

so what we're doing with that information, we've made adjustments throughout this to the comp plan, also the zoning map. Um we we do look at the comments every day and there are some that you know have a question about why are we thinking about reszoning this property and you know we look at those and there may be a good reason that we can explain there may be something that you know we can reconsider. Um and the same thing with the zoning code update. you know, we have we've already made uh through this process uh adjustments when we hear things from constituents that are things that we feel like are uh reasonable adjustments. So,

—

I appreciate that. Um do you know how many people have been through this second round? like the total number of attendees or community um you know how you go in you sign in so you have you quantified

—

Christina Crutchfield she is the administrator of planning

—

hey Christina

—

went up here in the first place

—

it's like testifying before Congress have a seat

—

yeah that's why we want to make sure that she and her team were here

—

absolutely

—

hello my name is Christina Cretinber I'm with office of comprehensive planning 125 North Main Street. Um so unique attendees we had throughout the 14 ah my watch okay we had right under 1500
7:05:55

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

unique attendees. um our big big number of like how many times did our office or leds do something and have a some person be either online survey in some way interact with us our big big number is actually 3500 of 35,000 um interactions throughout the uh five-year update process

—

this phase two

—

yes

—

and when you say 30 so you went from 1500 to 35,000 that's a big difference what's the difference So the big number includes um uh social media, it includes um surveys, it includes um how many I say how many engagement points. So it may be we had um a the regular three Raleigh community meetings and then we had the follow-up meeting with Raleigh Community Council and all of those things. So how many individual touch points that's the 35 uh thousand how many people showed up, signed into community meetings? That's right around 1500.

—

Okay. Okay. And because and the reason why I ask is because we're making some big changes in in our city and the way it looks in future use based on these numbers and engagements and comments and things like that. And just want to make certain that we're getting a you know accurate look not you know very um small amount of people. That's why I'm asking, not just to be asking, but because that matters. It make it means a lot. And we're using this document as like a land use bible, you know, and so we want to make sure that it's not um we're not pigeon holeing the information. Thank you.

—

All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. And for the record, we had Councilwoman Cooper Sutton join us like right after we started, so she's here. Thank you, Councilwoman. All right. We've got Councilman Warren in the queue and then uh Councilwoman Walker. Council War,

—

I just have a quick comment. I I think there's a lot of fear out in the community and there's been some active
7:07:55

Show transcript (11 turns)

—

disinformation uh groups there spreading what is not really real about what we're trying to do. So, as you hear comments, be aware of that. I mean, there's signs out in the neighborhood and things like that. and it's got to do with groups that don't understand this or trying to like present it in a way that isn't exactly what it is. So that's there. So be aware. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

—

Thank you, Councilman. Councilwoman Walker.

—

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for coming today and sharing this information. I did attend the um the walkth through at the White Haven branch last week and I judged that it went well. Um, as far as getting the word out and communicating to the public, who does the marketing, communications, creates the collateral, flyers, messaging for this initiative?

—

So, originally for the five-year update, we had a partnership with a local community development intermediary, Building Memphis. Um, and they were in charge of um helping us get in contact with the community organizations that they already work with. and then also doing the engagement and helping us with social media and those things. Um those are for the original three meetings in each district. Um we were actually able to hire a in-house engagement manager um who is now helping us get all that information. So a dedicated staff person um for engagement is how we're uh working currently.

—

So when you say engagement, are you referring to the flyers?

—

Yes, ma'am. So, somebody in your office in this building has been doing the flyers

—

um for the for these last meetings that are current. Yes.

—

Okay. Can you follow up with me offline and let me know who that is?

—

Absolutely.

—

Thank you so much. I yield the floor.

—

Right. Thank you, Councilwoman. Any more council members want to speak on this? All right. We'll see you all next week or at a neighborhood meeting. All right. That's it for item uh number one. Thank
7:09:57

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

you. All right. Item number two. We've been here 18 minutes. I'm trying to be aware of time. Um, so we've got another 20 minutes left in committee. Um, and we've got two more items. So item number two, presentation a resolution on efforts to address short-term rental issues. All council district sponsored again by um your humble chairman. So we've got some members of the audience with Safeways if y'all don't mind to approach. And then uh Chief Zena, would you mind to join us up here? So, I'll just share comments and I think I speak for all the council members. I made notes. Um, and again, I want to be aware of time, but I feel like it's important to say this. So, since the first neighborhood meeting that Councilman Canal and I had um at Guisman when I got on the council again, so that was two years ago. Short-term rentals are an issue. Everybody knows it. We get a ton of calls and it's in our face every day. But I've been to over two dozen neighborhood meetings where there have been issues um or that my office that I have where we followed up on them. Seven of them were shootings. There were two deaths. Four of them were meetings that happened within 24 72 hours um in the neighborhoods where I went. So I'm I'm sick of of this and I think everybody is. And it's the thing that's been frustrating is is what can we do um as a council? And that's been a thing that we've all been frustrated with that we've been explained to constituents a lot of times. They're like, "Man, you know, you got to do something, horse." And it's like, "I promise you we're working on it." So, today is essentially 13 months. I know there's slide there's 42 slides in your presentation. Well, two weeks ago there was this many slides. Um there's state laws. You know, I want to thank Senator Taylor. I want to thank um Representative Parkinson. He passed a house bill recently. So, today's resolution is something that we can do as a council. and I consider this a launch point for us um today. So, a yes vote is supporting a plan for us
7:11:58

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

to address short-term rental properties and implement some change. Um, one last thing before I give them the floor. We were prepared, had all this put together, and I called Chief Zena. I brought him in and he said, "My goodness, this is fantastic. We're doing something, too." And so, there's some things that he'll be able to speak to today. And there was going to be a financial ask today. I withdrew that ask because I want us to have a financial ask, but I think we need to to go through those waters together here over the next 90 days and figure out what that is. But there will be a financial as add to this in the budget. But um that's it for my comments. If y'all don't mind introduce yourself, you've got your presentation and we'll eagerly listen to what you have to say. Thank you. Rogers, compliance manager at Safeways, address 6064 Apple Tree Drive, sweet.

—

Joe Garly, executive director of Safeways, 6064 Apple Tree Drive, sweetite number seven. Board director at Safeways, 395 Goodwin Street, Memphis, Tennessee 3811. John Zena, chief of development and infrastructure.

—

And again, we're not going to go over every single slide.

—

We first started this first Safeways.

—

All y'all know who Safeways is. If not, I'm going to go ahead and get y'all updated. Again, we're 501c3 nonprofit. We work with apartment complexes and we've also worked with single family homes to lower crime through step and through data from the police department on the crimes that happen on these properties. This same model that we use can be used with the short-term rentals. We uh have put together
7:13:58

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

this and of course as we went through this to begin with it was doing everything that the city was doing with their online stuff and now they have a new AI. So now we're going to get together and do a partnership with this and we haven't had all those meetings yet. It's just been a couple talks but everything looks like it's going to go. So I'm going to kind of quickly go through these slides because this is going to change. Uh

—

well, let me interject real quick.

—

Okay,

—

this goes back to Bing Hampton and the Red Oaks apartment complex. So, council members about a year and a half ago, we focused with Tilman precinct.

—

Um the owners of the Red Oaks apartment complex, it was either number one, two, or three every month for years as far as violence goes. We started having monthly and bimonthly meetings there with officers from Tilman precinct, the property owners, and I think about Miss Janito on Carpenter Street. There were three shootings at the Art Garden. Um there was just a lot of violence and this was before the Memphis State Task Force. I mean, this was two two years ago. Um and they they this group stepped in and that's how I initially learned about y'all. And within six months, you know, that Red Oaks was removed from the top 10 list. And that's when all these STR issues started coming up. And we were like, hey, why can't you sprinkle the Safeways recipe on short-term rentals? Can we talk about that? And then it's been the journey of what can we do as a council and what the state and this is all about enforcing the laws that we have. So, at the end of the day, I want to say one more thing. There's, and I'm not going to name a name, but you know what we found, for example, through all this research is that there's a property owner, an individual that has over 150 um homes. You know, the majority of of people that do this, you know, are doing a great job. But if you took all those properties that that person has, they're one of the top three offenders or top five offenders is if they own an apartment complex. And these
7:15:59

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

are the things that that we need to focus on. And so, they've got the data and they've got the and they've got the track record of doing great work and um I just wanted to to to say that you know because that's how we got here today. So thanks.

—

So our basic proposal is we just want to get the support, the prevention, the accountability and the coordination and work with the city departments that are actually working to do this that are now doing AI. But there are things that are there that are not going to be able to be done by AI. It's going to have to be somebody on the ground that's actually doing that work and we would like to do that work.

—

Yep.

—

You know, if you'all go to slide 24 on the presentation,

—

so we get

—

it shows all the ordinances and laws that we could enforce.

—

That's not it. Next one. Next one. Next one. There we are. Okay. So, this is a current current ordinance. So, short-term rentals require a permit to be in operation. The permit required before operation was before 20 July 1, 2023. You did not have to have a permit. Those are the permit application fees. Uh they're good for 365 days. responsible party has to be within 50 miles and the permit must be visibly posted. None of this stuff is being done
7:18:00

Show transcript (5 turns)

—

on the 90% of the short-term rentals that are in Memphis. They are only on the ones that actually are doing the right thing and signing up. Rest of them are renting this without and they're also on the Airbnb apps without the permit and they're operating without any regulation whatsoever. That's part of what this would help turn around. Next slide.

—

Councilwoman Logan, you have a question on that.

—

Always do. Okay.

—

Uh there are non-compliance conditions, the operating without a valid permit. There are fines and everything that already set up through this body that's already in place that uh but you we're not locating the actual people to be able to use these ordinances against and that's where we come in. We're going to help find those and of course the help of the AI that's going to also do that as well. Next slide. Okay, there on the apartment complexes, they can actually have a short-term rental in them, but it can be it has to be less than 5%. 5% is the max, but the total number of units and more.

—

Yep, that's just for the apartments. Next slide. So question came up on the anti-transpass for commercial use uh and I did check with U DA Moroy to get his opinion and they are a commercial business when they turn them into a short-term rental. So therefore, when you have something that happens at a party or violation,
7:20:01

Show transcript (1 turns)

—

you could use this as a next step to have it on the actual put it on the house so that when the officers arrive for the next party that happens, they can actually do something to disperse that prop that party instead of just telling them to go inside and turn the music down because nobody's supposed to be on that property by the antitrust. So they can actually have an enforcement action done right then instead of later. Next slide. So this was our original scope of work before talking to the other agencies was the permit verification police call monitoring for 3090 and 180 days. So we will be providing the police monitoring for the 3090 and 180 days at all the STRs that we can get identified. So we will know within a couple of days when a call is made or a report is made at the short-term rental. So instead of waiting for five, six, 10 of them to not be identified, they'll be now identified immediately and then this body can take action. We also will be doing arrest category reporting, looking for any felony arrests that are made. Those will also be identified. 311 documentation that's just not for the actual STR on how they had a party and it's got trash everywhere and we get a call from neighborhood or y'all get a call from somebody in the neighborhood and says they had a party here this weekend. Well, we go out take a look and trash everywhere, beer cans everywhere. We take pictures of all of that and send that in for y'all to be able to handle that situation because right now that's not being done. Um, violent crime calls and arrests. Okay. I did that operation without a permit. Like I've already said, we'll be checking for those with the help of the other city.
7:22:01

Show transcript (6 turns)

—

Yep. Yep. And then the and then septad to be used on these as they're as they have problems to actually make sure that they're don't have the overgrown bushes that they're not having the low trees actually helping make the crime happen there.

—

All right. So, I'm going to stop you there. So, the we got two council members that want to speak, but again, a launch point today, a launch point conversation and the expectation

—

um is that we would be getting reports

—

every 30 days, every week once all this is implemented. But the expectation today for the resolution, again, there's going to be a funding ask in the budget. I did not put that in the resolution today on purpose, but y'all will come back here in 90 days with some data. Mhm.

—

Um and actually if if I would like for um Chief Zena to share some thoughts on this as well because we really did we changed this. There was an ask and and we had a whole bunch of stuff put together and then excited for Chief Zena to speak on this.

—

Thank you. John Zena, chief of development and infrastructure. Um Councilman Spza, I appreciate you bringing this forward. Um, I I know obviously from my last role and this one, this issue has been one that uh this council has and this administration has been very concerned about. As we've talked about many times, uh, the state law around short-term rentals kind of ties one hand behind our backs. Uh, so we're operating with with really limited capacity and what we can do. Um, so for example, a lot of the um, you know, a lot of the standards that are in the current ordinance were standards that were put in place in 2023 when we made that update. And, uh, those standards would only apply to short-term rentals that started operation after that date of July 1st, 2023. And so we talked before about how difficult it is trying to, you know, regulate short-term rentals given the fact that we have two
7:24:02

Show transcript (2 turns)

—

different laws that we have to apply based on the state law. Um, and the fact that since short-term rentals are essentially platformed by private entity, Airbnb, VBO, others, um, the availability of data and information about each individual unit is very hard to come by. Um, so the the AI was something that was mentioned a couple of times. I want to speak to that for a second. So in uh July of last year when you all established the division of community enhancement, one of the things that uh actually I believe I asked Councilman Warren uh and he sponsored was to take the the responsibility of enforcing the short-term rental ordinance from public works and give it to planning and development. And since then, um, the leadership in planning and development, um, they they got a much better director than the last guy. So, what they've done now with the new guy

—

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what they've been working on is to uh pursue a technology system and they've they've been looking at a number of different potential vendors and I believe they've decided on one, right? And I is the PO issued. Okay, so they have Okay, good. They have a PO issued with a company called Decard Technologies. And essentially what they do is they do a daily scrape of uh platforms and they're gathering every bit of data about listings in our community that is necessary for us to be able to enforce the laws we have on our books. So, one of the things that it says is, you know, I I mentioned a moment ago that there's there's one set of rules if you're prej July 2023. There's one set of rules if you're post July 2023. Well, this this technology allows us to be able to categorize and know what is pre July 2023 and what's post. That's a huge benefit that we
7:26:04

Show transcript (7 turns)

—

didn't have before. Uh it also allows us uh the the division to know how long these rentals have been operating and more importantly if there's a gap in operations what that gap is. Why that's important is because the state law essentially says if they discontinue use for 30 consecutive months then they're not grandfathered in that old law anymore. So that helps to us to be able to know now what falls into the new law just through using that technology. Okay. So when Councilman Spinosa brought this up, my immediate reaction is this is great because planning and development already has some work that they're doing around the technology and what we could do is through a partnership uh with whoever it may be uh be able to just um amplify the resources that we're throwing towards this issue in the community. So, I appreciate Councilman Spinosa's partnership on uh thinking through this and then um Safeways you guys I know you've already met today with with DPD to get the conversation started. So, I expect over the next 90 days uh more conversations to come about how how this partnership looks. Uh assuming you all vote this today.

—

Yep. Thank you. Um real quick, if we could get a motion in a second on this item, I' I'd appreciate that.

—

Second.

—

All right. So, well, there's a resolution. So, um, yes. So, motion was made by Councilwoman Logan and seconded by Dr. Warren. Um, thank you, Councilman Canali. All those in favor of this going downstairs with the positive recommendation, please respond by saying I.

—

I.

—

All right. So, motion was made, properly seconded, and it's going to go downstairs with the positive recommendation. The chairwoman, we are behind, has asked me to go ahead and wrap this thing up. I have two council members that have questions.

—

She's saying no, but I I want to be respectful of that. So quick question and on the record and then y'all get with them afterwards. I just want to be on the record. Yeah. Yeah.
7:28:05

Show transcript (9 turns)

—

And I can get with you after. I want to know the difference between what they're doing and what you were doing how the state limited what we could do through the process we were trying to go through and how this will be different and if you know this will encompass what we were trying to do.

—

I want to answer that now. But what's good?

—

Can I answer that very quickly?

—

The limits are the same. The state law is the same. What this allows is for us to just throw all resources that we can at within the limits that we have. Um and so that's going to be over the next 90 days what DPD Safeways are working together to scope out um what what role is planning and development playing? What role is Safeway playing? And are we covering essentially every are we leaving every stone, you know, turned over to be able to attack this problem?

—

Council McL's really quick. It's it's a yes or no answer. I would like to tax these guys at the commercial rate instead of the residential rate. Is that possible? Yes or no?

—

Um, can we tax them at the commercial rate rather than the residential rate? The answer is no based on the definition. If it's a single family structure, the answer is no.

—

But if they own 160 of them

—

because well, this is a Tennessee constitutional issue. However, there um the income generation is a a criteria that can be used by the tax assessor to be able to set the appraisal of the property. Uh I have had a conversation with uh Jay Bailey over at the assessor's office and he is interested in looking at income generation as a factor. The technology that DPD has acquired also has a module that gives them information about u the sales that are being generated on a property bypropy basis which could be information that they could uh consider at the assessor's office.

—

This will make our city safer. It's going to keep neighborhoods safe. It's
7:30:06

Show transcript (4 turns)

—

just the start of it. And then of course there's revenue and cost savings all across the board. So thank you council members. Pierce, you wanted to say something. Say it. Then we got to go 30 seconds.

—

Applaud having a bigger list um which is what the city has worked on and a more comprehensive list of which properties.

—

Um that makes the work of Safeways even bigger and more necessary. We've always had a list of apartments. We know where they are. We'll find out and um do do more work.

—

Thank you. And we're going to do item four downstairs.